USFA vs. Old USPFA case colors...are they different?

Virginia Gentleman · December 30, 2005, 02:06:02 PM

I have noticed on the older USPFA guns that the earlier guns had what looked like European case colors that are more muted than the current US FA Turnbull case colors. Am I seeing things or is there some truth to it?

Virginia Gentleman · January 18, 2006, 02:14:14 PM

Re-up, anybody?

Capt. John Fitzgerald · January 18, 2006, 08:29:33 PM

If you mean European as in, "Who put the finish on that USPFA Uberti Frame?", then the answer is no. All imported parts of the "patent guns" were fit and finished here.
I had a patent gun a couple of years ago and I couldn't tell the difference between it's CCH and the present guns. That doesn't mean that there isn't a difference between the Italian made USPFA frames and the US made USFA frames. I would imagine that different metals and forging processes would cause subtle differences in the CCH finish.

Virginia Gentleman · January 23, 2006, 12:35:35 PM

I think one difference of the European/Italian frames is the lack of a cylinder bushing CORRECTION, FIRING PIN BUSHIN, NOT CYLINDER BUSHING AS THEY ALL HAVE THAT. I don't think Ubertis ever had them and still don't. As far as case colors, they look the same to you? I guess they may have sent them to Turnbull then too. Cimarron sends them to Turnbull on their "US Finish" guns and they look good. Still USFA as a whole looks better than Cimarron and the USFA is nearly identical to the Colt 1st gen.

Arcey · January 23, 2006, 03:00:07 PM

All of my Ubertis have cylinder bushings..........

..

Virginia Gentleman · January 23, 2006, 03:21:15 PM

MAJOR CORRECTION: A FIRING PIN BUSHING IN THE FRAME IS WHAT I MEANT.....Man am I losing it! Sorry for the confusion. You are correct that all Uberits have a cylinder bushing, so does Colt now, USFA has always had one too. I was referring to the firing pin bushing that is pinned in the frame and could be removed if needed. The Ubertis, Cimarrons etc do not have them and I was wondering if the early Uberti framed USPFA guns had them? Now where is my St. John's Wort?

Arcey · January 23, 2006, 03:50:23 PM

Before I startin' usin' Ubertis, I heard folks talkin' about the firin' pin bore peenin' out to the point they'd have to hone them back or suffer lockups.

A couple of mine have been shot a bunch. Hell, all of mine have been shot a bunch, some more than others. Two of them I cleaned yesterday after a Saturday shoot. There's no trace of peening or cratering. Both of them are well over a thousand rounds in competition. That's a very conservative estimate.

One of those two has a nasty habit of piercing primers. I've always thought due to hammer over-travel. I've never cured it. If one was ever going to have a problem in that regard it's that one. The bore is as flush against the recoil shield as it was the day I bought it - used.

For my two cents, firing pin bushings aren't an issue.

Virginia Gentleman · January 25, 2006, 10:21:29 AM

That is good to know that it isn't an issue for peening over time. I guess I am still curious if the Uberti USPFA framed guns had a firing pin bushing or not? Anyone know?

Capt. John Fitzgerald · January 25, 2006, 11:31:10 AM

VG,
The one I had did not have the firing pin bushing. It was your standard issue, Uberti frame, complete with the cut out section in the hammer channel to accomodate that hammer mounted safety block that Uberti used (even through the "Patent" gun used a Colt style hammer).

Virginia Gentleman · January 25, 2006, 01:00:31 PM

Quote from: Capt. John Fitzgerald on January 25, 2006, 11:31:10 AM
VG,
The one I had did not have the firing pin bushing. It was your standard issue, Uberti frame, complete with the cut out section in the hammer channel to accomodate that hammer mounted safety block that Uberti used (even through the "Patent" gun used a Colt style hammer).

Captain:

Thanks for answering my question and I notice on the new USFA guns they do have the firing pin bushing. This would not stop me from buying a USPFA gun with out one as they still look very good and I don't see many on the used market which tells me they were well made.

Hobie · July 21, 2008, 07:21:15 PM

My 6-digit gun has both the firing pin bushing and the cut-out for the hammer mounted safety. It is a USFA (not USPFA) marked gun. My just made (supposedly) USFA gun has no cut-out for the hammer mounted safety and has a 5-digit serial number.

FWIW and in keeping with the original question, the blue and color-case both seem deeper and the color case has more contrast than on the older gun.

Banjoman · July 22, 2008, 08:50:35 PM

I've noticed a few early frames with where the coloring is not as "bright". The early ones were done by Turnbull too but he has come along way over the last 15 years. Keep in mind also that real color case will fade over time. The amount of fading is directly related to how the gun used and stored. Sunlight will fade the coloring. Regarding the FP bushing (recoil plate), very early guns with Uberti frames did not have one. Later guns, still with Uberti frames, had the recoil plate installed at the USFA factory. Finally, a recoil plate is not used on the Plinker.
Banjoman

Hobie · July 22, 2008, 09:48:14 PM

Thanks for that information. I know about CC fade but not the mechanical details. Very interesting.