Best accuracy you have obtained from a Model 1876?

[Oregon Bill]

I've been reading a lot of material about the various calibers and loads, but haven't seemed to find any consensus on what the '76s are capable of on their and their shooters' best days.
I see a lot of 50-yard groups. I am more interested in 100-yard groups -- out about where iron sights, my eyes and deer no longer play well together.
In his "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West," Mike Venturino comments in the section of the .50-95 that it never enjoyed much of a reputation for accuracy. and that he was happy when he could get the first three shots of a five-shot group to land within three inches, before the group invariably opened to five or six inches.
The other three calibers often gave better groups, though none of them stellar. Of course, Mike was using black powder loads only.
For those that have done target work at 100, what were your recipes for success?

[kwilliams1876]

Good sights make all the difference at 100 yds. plus. I put a repro original style tang sight on my Uberti .50-95. It can shoot groups of 4 inches or so, sometimes better. Swiss Black powder, wad, weighed charges, and a heavier 430 gr. Ideal bullet for Uberti's twist. A set trigger would of been nice too.
kw

[greyhawk]

I've been reading a lot of material about the various calibers and loads, but haven't seemed to find any consensus on what the '76s are capable of on their and their shooters' best days.
I see a lot of 50-yard groups. I am more interested in 100-yard groups -- out about where iron sights, my eyes and deer no longer play well together.
In his "Shooting Lever Guns of the Old West," Mike Venturino comments in the section of the .50-95 that it never enjoyed much of a reputation for accuracy. and that he was happy when he could get the first three shots of a five-shot group to land within three inches, before the group invariably opened to five or six inches.
The other three calibers often gave better groups, though none of them stellar. Of course, Mike was using black powder loads only.
For those that have done target work at 100, what were your recipes for success?

5 shots at 100 yards - iron target sights - tang rear sight - tunnel front sight. blackpowder - HDPE poly wad - 
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[Galloway]

From what I've read i think the 76 was a hiccup in winchesters history. Short for caliber bullets going down a long barrel during the blackpowder era. Not many were made and the cartridges never made the switch to smokeless and winchester never made another 28'' production barrel end of story. Lots of 28'' sharps but those typically fired 500gr bullets with tons of lube. As for replicas most of the accuracy claims are from the chapparels and many think uberti missed the mark with either the spin or depth of their rifling. I think back in the day it would have been a good choice for high volume close range big game hunting and am sure there were market hunters who swore by it as it did deliver repeatable power. Just my humble thoughts 

[greyhawk]

look at the history of (toggle link action) development - the 76 is an obvious endpoint

1) the volcanic - short slick and quick but inneffective ammo - propellent charge in the projectile

2) the henry/66 - stretch the action some - better ammo - the 44 rimfire about as good as it got in its day

3) the 1873 - stretch it a bit more - better ammo again - proper reloadable centre fire ammo - the fact that the 1873 is the premier race gun in cowboy action today speaks large of the effectiveness of this action design

4) the 1876 - stretched that thing as far as it could go - we wanna join the big boys - just like today - military contracts is where the money is - despite much writing to the contrary they did in fact duplicate military ballistics with the 45/75 - at the point where the military was backloading the 45/70 to make it a little more shootable the 45/75 had a 350 grain boolit sitting on 75 grains of powder, winchester also marketed a long range load - 450 grain PP boolit over 90 grains of powder for single loading in the 76 - at least up to specs with the military 500 grain load in the 45/70 

where would Winchester have gone? without Browning is an interesting point - no answer cuz it went where it went at the time

I have a replica of the 76 and 86 - limit both to blackowder rounds and if  had to take one into a fight - I proly pick the 76

the target I posted is a Uberti dont think they missed the mark at all with that one ! I was told these are Pedersoli barells - it looks like one - shoots like one 

this is a 45/75 - 20" twist barrel - your comments (Galloway) are likely more pertinent to the other calibres - particularly 45/60 - 40/60 - those two I always considered afterthoughts, a marketing excercise ....the 50/95 in its day would have had few peers - a niche gun for sure but up close on soft skinned angry things second only to a good English Double.

[King Medallion]

Only takes one to kill a potentially great thread   

[greyhawk]

Only takes one to kill a potentially great thread   

what? ..........he asked for the best we done - I posted my best ever with my 76 - kinda proud of that target  - could I do it again ? unlikely but I bet that gun is good enough .

[King Medallion]

no, not you.

[Cliff Fendley]

5 shots at 100 yards - iron target sights - tang rear sight - tunnel front sight. blackpowder - HDPE poly wad - 
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Do you mind sharing what bullet and particulars? I've never been able to get a Uberti 45-75 to shoot that good at that distance using MVA sights and a multitude of different bullets. From my personal experience an original Winchester 76 still in good condition will outshoot the Uberti any day of the week with black powder at long ranges.

[greyhawk]

no, not you.

ok thanks

[greyhawk]

Do you mind sharing what bullet and particulars? I've never been able to get a Uberti 45-75 to shoot that good at that distance using MVA sights and a multitude of different bullets. From my personal experience an original Winchester 76 still in good condition will outshoot the Uberti any day of the week with black powder at long ranges.

Cliff
a general comment first -- my rifle likes fat boolits it shoots just average with anything sized .458
Did some scratching around - that group would be shot when I was playing with single loaded heavy boolits and would be the CBE 535 x 459 (their pedersol  sharps boolit - but I had it shortened by one groove to 470 grain) so its loaded just on the lands - 72 grains of my FFG willow powder and a HDPE wad.
Have not yet got this gun properly sorted, it strings shots vertical as it warms, (most lever guns do I think)
My more conventional loads are made using the LEE 459x405 HB - thats a nose pour mold designed for the trapdoor - I flattened the nose in the mill for safety in the magazine of the 76 and took the tit off the base plug so's I could use an over powder wad - still weighs 405 grain . I made another base plug that shortened the boolit by one groove to weigh 330Grains - this mold drops at .460 maybe a fat .460 and I use a .460 size die or unsized even
Have a Chiappa 86 that just loves the 330grain version of this.
So  below is a 50 yard ten shot string with the Uberti and the 405 grain LEE (shot from the magazine) I pulled a couple to the left but shot 8 pretty good but you can clearly see the vertical stringing - barrel was pretty warm at the end. Shot to shot cadence is the only way I have handled this so far - tried a magazine tube with no front connection - got some improvement but not fixed.
Guys tell me these are pedersoli barrel and it looks like one, beautiful finish inside, a dream to clean.

My brass is reformed 348 winchester - I dont resize , dont even neck size, this brass in my gun, with those fat boolits is just a dead neat fit at the neck end - just enough clearance to allow boolit release and I just reload and put a little crimp on - after about six reloads the case needs just a touch at the rear end where solid head meets case wall - made  me a special die for that - just a tiny touch is all it needs. I have two LEE full length resize dies still not used - they are way too savage on nicely formed brass .        

bottom pic here is ten with the 470 grain CBE I was talkin about - pulled one low (or maybe thats cold barrel shot?) others are not so bad
All my strings are shot with no clean between shots - so far have refused to do that but I reckon that would eliminate that stringing I get. 

[Slamfire]

I do enjoy rereading older threads. Greyhawk, that is some very good shooting and i (myself) also shoot from the mag. as i think the powder placement (in loaded rounds) is more even verses single loading. It seems to make Extreme Spread more even and FPS closer.


  coffee's ready,  Hootmix.