Roll Crimp for an '87?

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

Howdy Shotgunners,

Has any one else turned to roll crimped shells to make a recalcitrant '87 to eject and feed reliably? I've made myself a couple of boxes and am just waiting to try them at a match. I tried a pair of AA's and STS's and they seemed to do the trick.

I'd welcome any comments and advise from any cowboys that have already been down this trail.

Rev. Chase

[Cap'n Redneck]

Is Your -87 an original Winchester, a Norinco or an ArmiSport/Chiappa?

I have an original and a Norinco, and I've found that they are picky both when it comes to overall length of the fired shell, and the required "firmness" of the tip of the fired shell.
For me all-brass shells work the best.
Roll-crimped paper-shells work okay.
With star-crimped or roll-crimped plastic-shells I have to expect that a high percentage of the shells will stick between the extractor claws and have to be brushed off rather than falling free by themselves.

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

Howdy Cat.

I have a Norinco. I have had problems with the star crimped shells. STS's work better than AA's, but based on my (exhaustive) four shell test, the roll crimped work much better than the star crimped shells. I still haven't had a chance to run a box of shells through the gun. When I finally get that done, I will report my findings.

Rev. Chase

[Coffinmaker]

Hi Guys 

Just a little something to think about with the 1887.  The 1887 action was originally designed for Two and a Half inch hulls, Roll Crimped, or for Two and a Half inch All Brass hulls.  Just a thought.

[Reverend P. Babcock Chase]

Howdy Coffin,

You are absolutely correct. That was why I started to experiment with roll crimping.

Rev. Chase

[Montana Slim]

I have one of the IAC guns - having Coyote Cap's nice American walnut. I went through a long checklist of all know issues/"fixes". Most weren't needed (already improved at factory). Don't know if/where I might have that list - I downloaded from somewhere(?) & I have dozens of DVDs full of good stuff, yet unpacked after moving last year. I do recall fussing over the movement/action of the extractors & extractors springs to get it running to my satisfaction. No problem running star crimped plastic 2 3/4" shells - from any manufacturer. I also  did a slight mod to the follower, making something of a drop-two type mod. This doesn't interfere with functioning of the magazine, so I can load-up for field use on critters. Impossible to say all production runs are identical - lots of unknowns. The extra treat was having Cap attend my club's two annual multi-day matches (St Jude's & Fall Roundup) for many years. Cap usually on my posse & I'd use the 87' occasionally so Cap could see the fine walnut he bought/shipped for HIS run of guns that ended up on another importer's run - he had a great sense of humor. Great times and a few technical conversations about making guns, which was my occupation at the time. Sad when things change - Cap's gone🙏😥 & both of those fun matches cancelled in favor of a State SASS match 😟

Slim

[Abilene]

...I went through a long checklist of all know issues/"fixes". Most weren't needed (already improved at factory). Don't know if/where I might have that list - I downloaded from somewhere(?)...

There used to be a long list on Coyote Cap's website, that might have been where you got it. 

[cpt dan blodgett]

my norinco 87 will eject federal remington and AA if lever worked vigorously Fiocci not so much.  Am going to go down the roll crimp rat hole getting nearly cool enough to work in the garage.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Consider the Hartin crimp. No extra "stuff" is required. Search cascity for copious conversations.

Trim fired cases to 2.5 inches. A portion of the original crimp remains.

Load your preferred 2 3/4 inch load, but use a wad intended for a shorter load if stack-height problems occur. ( e.g. For a 1 oz load use a 1 1/8 style wad.)  For blackpowder loads. Use your usual wad column, adjusted for an effective crimp. Sometimes I use an AA Red Wad.

Place an "over shot card" on top of your load.

Run the case through the same crimping process that you use for a star crimped load.

Pack up your pick-me-up kinda truck and head for the range.

[cpt dan blodgett]

I have a chinchester 1887 (Chinese winchester) can usually get federal Remington and AA to eject if you use lever like you mean it.  Will not eject Fiocchi at all. Works great with  roll crimps. Was going to cut and roll crimp all my Fiocchi  hulls but they crimp so good with blue Windjammer wads will cut down and roll crimp my federal hulls that do not crimp  well with any of my wads

[Rube Burrows]

When not using brass hulls I roll crimp for my 87s both original and replica and also my original 1901 in 10 gauge.