Stabler cutoff

[Wagon Wheel]

I was wondering if Taylors made a Spencer with the Stabler cutoff as seen in the photo on their website or is that from a prototype?

[Steel-eye Steve]

About two years ago I talked to them about this. They were originally planning on doing this, but found it tended to make the gun more prone to jamming.

[Ed Clintwood]

Does anyone know if any of the makers of repro Spencers are going to make a Spencer cut off?  Seems that it was a simpler way of doing things way back when.

[French Jack]

Even the Spencer company had trouble with the Stabler cutoff, as they modified it and then designed their own.  You can see the example on page 137, and 143 of Roy Marcot's book, "Spencer Repeating Firearms".

[Steel-eye Steve]

Does anyone know if any of the makers of repro Spencers are going to make a Spencer cut off?  Seems that it was a simpler way of doing things way back when.

In 2003, Taylor told me they had no plans to so.

[French Jack]

Actually, unless you were in combat, there would be no reason to need one.  In the typical cowboy action shooting style, you would have the same overall time whether you single load three rounds or whatever at the start, then used the magazine, or emptied the magazine then single loaded the extra rounds. 

[Steel-eye Steve]

Actually, unless you were in combat, there would be no reason to need one.  In the typical cowboy action shooting style, you would have the same overall time whether you single load three rounds or whatever at the start, then used the magazine, or emptied the magazine then single loaded the extra rounds. 

Though not period, I would love to have one for reenacting. Things always seem to get interesting when you only have two rounds left in the magazine

[Ed Clintwood]

What's not period about them?  The Stabler design came in during the war (Civil) as did the Spencer.

[Major 2]

1865 Period (not war time issue) I think is what Steel eye meant...

"After the war, Springfield Armory altered approximately 11,000 war model carbines. The barrels had liners installed to accept the new .50 cal. cartridge. A device know as the "Stabler Cut Off" was added which enabled the gun to be used as a single shot, keeping the magazine in reserve. This was a small piece very similar to a wing nut. It was mounted on the trigger plate just ahead of the trigger. When positioned lengthwise it prevented the breech block from opening far enough for the magazine to fee a fresh cartridge. When turned sideways it allowed the block to open fully.

In 1865 Spencer came out with a new version appropriately called the Model 1865. This was essentially the same as the war model, except that it was chambered for the new .56-50 cartridge. Production of this model was about 23,000 pieces of which about half are fitted with the Stabler Cut Off. These are marked on the barrel breech "M 1865". The Model 1865 was also made under contract by the Burnside Rifle Company. Burnside production was approximately 34,000 carbines. The only variation from Spencer made guns are that these have three groove rifling instead of six groove and are marked as made by the Burnside Rifle Company.
  The Model 1867 soon followed. This again was almost the same as its predecessor. However, many of these were fitted with the "Spencer Patent Magazine Cut Off". This was an extra wide device in place of the usual narrow cartridge ejector. Pivoting the top prevents the breech block from traveling rearward enough to accept the next cartridge from the magazine. Marked on barrel breech "M 1867"

[Ed Clintwood]

I stand corrected, I thought the Spencer cut-off was war time but I just looked it up and it was indeed 1867.  Whatever, it would be interesting to see if anyone will offer any kind of cut off device in the future.

[Steel-eye Steve]

1865 Period (not war time issue) I think is what Steel eye meant...

Correct, I was referring to CW issue weapons.

[Major 2]

Not don't want to highjack the thread but...

Steel eye
I wonder if we ever met... you look familiar.
I too reenacted Federal Cavalry for some 27 years, commanded Second Florida Cavalry Inc. ( a mounted unit for about 25 of those years )
We offen rode with the 7 Ill. Cav command by Karl Luthin.
We did alot of events up your way.

[Steel-eye Steve]

Not don't want to highjack the thread but...

Steel eye
I wonder if we ever met... you look familiar.
I too reenacted Federal Cavalry for some 27 years, commanded Second Florida Cavalry Inc. ( a mounted unit for about 25 of those years )
We offen rode with the 7 Ill. Cav command by Karl Luthin.
We did alot of events up your way.

Hmmmm, I believe I've ridden with the 7th at an event in Princeton, Ill and several times at Boscobel, WI. That picture, taken at a living history event in Galena, Ill was also used used in an Iowa tourist brochure.

[geo]

my model '65 has a stabler cut off. it's a pain in the patootie. tighten the screw too much and you can't turn it. too loose and it blocks the mutiple round feed. good luck, geo.

[geo]

steele-eye steve...aren't you the librarian i exchanged many emails about the starr da/sa pistol that cabela's sold some years ago? i am the md. librarian. am now retired and gainfully unemployed. if you are the same let me know and i will send you my home email. good luck., geo.

[Arizona Trooper]

Geo, if you are out of Md. I may have ridden with you too. I was with the 4th Va. Cav. from about 1980 unitl 1990. Went to school in Az. and came back in '94, then went to the 1st SC cav. here in Charleston (all mounted).

On the Spencer cutoff, a photo of the M-1867 version for the Lane extractor equipped Spencers is pictured below. The upper fork pivots left to stop the breech from opening enough for the magazine to feed. The New Model Spencer cutoff looks pretty much hte same, but pivots to the right.

[Steel-eye Steve]

steele-eye steve...aren't you the librarian i exchanged many emails about the starr da/sa pistol that cabela's sold some years ago? i am the md. librarian. am now retired and gainfully unemployed. if you are the same let me know and i will send you my home email. good luck., geo.

Yes, I am. I was wondering the same about you! Please send me your e-mail.

[Pistol Blaine]

The Stabler cutoff as used on the Burnside contract guns is kinda neat!  It does allow for single loading with the minimun of fussing about.  The problem with the original design comes from the triggerplate screw used with the devise.  It's just a bit longer that those without the Stabler devise.  The screw has a tendency to loosen with use, and then allows it to swing freely which causes it to end up half on/off and jams the breechblock.  I just cut a small washer from a tefflon gasket material and installed it between the Stabler devise and the triggerplate.  Keeps the devise snug and the screw does not back out.   Now mine stays either on or off.  I think I will adapt the Taylor Spencer for the Stabler cutoff.  Order one from S&S firearms,  A screw for the rear sight elevator retainer, make a slightly longer metric triggerplate screw,  drill and tap the triggerplate for the elevator retainer screw to limit the rotation of the devise and place a tefflon washer between the devise and triggerplate just as I've done on my original Burnside Spencer.  Don't see why it will not work.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Pistol Blaine, wouldn't you have to spot anneal the area to be drilled in order not to crack it when drilling? Explain how you will complete this process, please.

[Pistol Blaine]

The trigger plate is case colored/hardened.  I'll probably locate the small limit screw based on my original and just take a very fine burr with my dremel tool and spot grind thru the case then drill and tap.  Should work.  The time consuming part will be getting a longer triggerplate screw blanked for the Stabler and then thread the shank with a metric die and trim to the correct length.  I then have to make sure the small radius groove in the upper breach block matches the radius of the Stabler devise.  I do not see why this is not possible.  My friend Steel Eye Steve wants to try this on his Taylor .45 Schofield and we will get his set up like my original Burnside M1865 Spencers.