44 Colt/Russian

[Pappy Hayes]

Is there no company making 44 Colt/Russian ammo? Can't see to find any. Anyone in my area of Independence  MO that does reloading?

[Abilene]

Black Hills Ammo:
http://www.black-hills.com/shop/cowboy-ammo/44-russian/

I know that Texas Jacks and Cimarron both carry that ammo.  Whether they currently have any I couldn't say.  BHA is expensive.

[Pappy Hayes]

What is BHA? Any site showing Black Hills is all out of stock.

[Abilene]

BHA is Black Hills Ammo.  That is the headstamp on their brass (made by Starline, I believe).  Neither Texas Jacks nor Cimarron list ammo on their websites.  You have to call.  They always had a good selection of BHA ammo in CAS calibers including the Russian, Schofield, 44 Spcl, 32wcf 38wcf 44wcf, etc. 

Ultramax made it, too.  But a quick search seems to indicate the factory burned up last year (?), so that's not good.

[Earl Brasse]

Sent you a pm, I have 4 boxes factory .44 Russian I will bring to EOT to sell.

[Pappy Hayes]

Is it safe to shoot 44 special in Richard's type 2 and what grain should I use?

[Drydock]

Does it have 44 special chambers?  It will be marked on the underside of the barrel.  I believe most are so chambered and is fine to do so.  Most run 200 grainers at 650-750 fps, ie 44 Colt ballistics.

[Pappy Hayes]

I found while back an article on reloading the 44's, colt,russian and special. Have not been able to find it. Can someone direct me to it?

[Pappy Hayes]

Is Ten-X ammo still in business?

[Abilene]

Is Ten-X ammo still in business?

They have been gone for a few years.

Not much to loading the Russian or special.  Same as anything.  Plenty of load data out there if you want to use smokeless.  Use a .429 or .430 sized bullet, from 160gr to 240gr.  Lighter bullets will have less recoil. Some dies might do double duty, but I use two separate sets of Lee dies for each caliber.  I have some 44 Colt brass as well but haven't bothered to reload that caliber, as the Special and Russian do all I want in the .44 pistols.

[Pappy Hayes]

I have a lot of 44 colt brass some russian. Is there anyone here close to Independence Missouri  that is doing reloading that could reload for me? I am looking into getting some reloading equipment.

[Coffinmaker]

  Hi Pappy 

You really don't need a lot of expensive nor a "lot" of equipment if all you want reload is 44 Russian and 44 Colt.  You can start with a simple Lee Classic single stage press and dies.

Then I'd suggest loading 3f APP BP substitute.  Super easy to load.  APP to the bullet base (suggest 160Gr bullets) and crimp.

APP is also super easy to clean up.  Plain water is the universal solvent.  Wanna get fancy??  Make some PAM.

HAVE FUN


Yes Agnes, People ARE HAZARDOUS TO YER HEALTH

[Pappy Hayes]

What dies do i need

[Abilene]

Someone will need to chime in that has loaded both 44 Colt and Russian, if you want to load both those.  Some Russian die sets might work on Colt as well, I'm not sure.  I do know that the 44 Colt has a smaller rim and uses a different shell holder than 44 Mag/Spcl/Russian. 

I use Lee dies for most stuff, has always been fine for me, and they tend to be the least expensive.

[Blair]

 The original .44 Colt is a heel base outside lubed bullet. The heel fits inside the case mouth but the outside dia. of the bullet is .451 to fit the bore dia. with the smaller rim dia. casing.
The original .44 Russian/Special/Magnum use a .429 dia. inside lubed bullet.
Original firearms chambered for .44 Colt or .44 Russian ammo are NOT interchangeable.
My best,
Blair   

[Coffinmaker]

. Hi Pappy 

Not to fret.  If your shooting modern replica guns, alla Open Top, R/M Conversions, etc., 44 Russian, 44 Special, and 44 Colt are ALL modern iterations and are interchangeable in the guns, unless (once in a while) you actually run into a gun chambered for 44 Russian only.

Dies needed are dies for 44 Russian/Special.  Dies for 44 Magnum mayor may not load 44 Russian.  Lee dies are perfectly fine as is the Lee Classic Press.  Loading for one shooter, one caliber (or two) a single stage press is all you need.  You may need two different shell holders for 44 Russian/44 Colt.  With the additional shell holder, you will be able to load for the modern 44 Colt just fine.


Yep!!  People ARE Hazardous to Yer Health!!

[Tascosa Joe]

If you are looking for someone close, Go to the NCOWS website and contact someone in the Kansas Vigilance Committee.  There are several individuals that reload .44 Russian or .44 Colt.

[Johnson Barr]

Quickest die set for both .44 Russian and .44 (inside lubed) Colt would be to buy Lee's .44 Russian set plus a .44 Colt shell holder. Colt rim is smaller in diameter than the S&W Russian. Use the appropriate shell holder as per case being loaded and then work the case mouth expander and seating dies up or down as to the shorter Russian or longer Colt case. Not much different than using the .44 mag set being used to load .44 Special.   

[Pappy Hayes]

Anyone  have Lee reloading equipment they aren't using and want to sell?

[Crow Choker]

Is there no company making 44 Colt/Russian ammo? Can't see to find any. Anyone in my area of Independence  MO that does reloading?

Hey Pappy!  Ammo for these calibers, esp the 44 Colt hard to find and expensive to buy. Setting up a basic reloading press, dies, scale, etc is a $$ expense to start, but well worth it. You don't have to be at the mercy of trying to find ammo. Casting lead bullets cheapin's up things too. If I had to buy all of the ammo for all of the calibers and types of firearms I have, I'd be selling a bunch. Be no fun IMO shooting what factory ammo costs. Components are to find at times due to current game of things, but if you're persistive, they can be found. I prefer RCBS and Redding reloading equipment for the most part, but a ton of ammo is loaded with Lee's and many shooters load quality ammo on it. A bit cheaper also to get set up to reload. Buying one of the sets/kits is usually cheaper than buying piece by piece. Reloading can be like alot of hobby's, ya buy at first what ya think you need, but there's always something you want to add to make it easier, faster, or whatever. Unless you want to spend more, the kits with the single stage press can reload ya alot of ammo. Sure a progressive press or a Dillion type that produces a round with every pull of the handle is fast, but I've been reloading since 1976 on a single stage RCBS RockChucker that can produce alot of ammo in an afternoon or two's work. I love to reload as much as shooting so it isn't a chore or hassle to me and I reload alot of handgun and rifle calibers that gives me as much ammo as I want.

Is it safe to shoot 44 special in Richard's type 2 and what grain should I use?

My Open Top (7.5" barrel) is stamped on the box as 44 Colt but chambered in 44 Special. Reason was advised by Cimarron employee that at the time I bought it (2007) alot of shooters wanted a OT or conversion in 44 Special but didn't want it stamped on the frame due to the fact the 44 Spec was a 1907 introduced cartridge (period correct stuff). Sometime later Cimarron stopped this policy and stamped whatever caliber the gun was. My 2009 Richards II has 44 Spec on the box. My other Open Top (4.75" barrel) has 44 Colt stamped on the box. All three though just have 44 CAL stamped on the left side of the receiver. Go figure.

When I first got the 7.5" OT in 2007 my intention was to load 44 Colts with FFF Black and smokeless in 44 Spec brass so powder ID would be an easy thing. Did so for a while but had so much fun just shooting 44 Colts loaded with a 200 grain Lee and later a 200 grain Mav Dutchman cast lead bullets, I quit for the most part with the 44 Spec smokeless loads. Mostly shoot hotter smokeless 44 Spec loads in my 44 Mag revolvers. I have loaded some 44 Spec loads with black but have never seen any advantage or reason. Few years back switched over to using FF Black and Mav Dutchman's in the 44 Colt. I have loaded up some suitable pressure smokeless loads in 44 Special for the Colts in the last few years, but not many, enjoy the 44 Colt black powder loads more.

In regards is it safe to shoot 44 Specials in a Uberti conversion (Richards II), the 4.75" Open Top listed as 44 Colt, I have no problem chambering or firing 44 Specials in it. Have only done so a few times with the few black powder 44 Specials I loaded up. When loaded, the bullet tip is well into the front of the chamber. Some time back on this forum this discussion came up and several shooters also posted about no trouble in firing 44 Spec ammos in a Uberti marked 44 Colt. Saw a post once that advised Uberti is pretty generous with the chambers in regard to 44 Colt vs 44 Special. A call to Cimarron could give you their take on it. As I stated earlier, 44 Colts get the vast majority of my shooting with the three Uberti Colts. The 44 Specials chamber fully with no resistance and unfired rounds fall freely out of the chambers.

Someone will need to chime in that has loaded both 44 Colt and Russian, if you want to load both those.  Some Russian die sets might work on Colt as well, I'm not sure.  I do know that the 44 Colt has a smaller rim and uses a different shell holder than 44 Mag/Spcl/Russian. 

I use Lee dies for most stuff, has always been fine for me, and they tend to be the least expensive.

Quickest die set for both .44 Russian and .44 (inside lubed) Colt would be to buy Lee's .44 Russian set plus a .44 Colt shell holder. Colt rim is smaller in diameter than the S&W Russian. Use the appropriate shell holder as per case being loaded and then work the case mouth expander and seating dies up or down as to the shorter Russian or longer Colt case. Not much different than using the .44 mag set being used to load .44 Special.   

I've been reloading for my open top style Colts since 2007. I have a RCBS 'Cowboy' die set marked for 44 Russian and 44 Special. While I've never loaded or even shot any Russians, any of the die sets marked as will load the Russian, Colt, and Special. Brass height difference is around 1/8" difference respectively for the three. Just have to set the dies accordingly. When I started loading 44 Magnums, I had to buy a 44 Mag bullet seater/crimper as the Russian/Special RCBS die set didn't allow me the extra height needed for seating bullets in 44 Mag brass, which is around another 1/8" higher than the Specials. The carbide sizer die and case mouth expander were ok, dimensions for all three calibers are all the same as far as sizing and any case mouth expanding.

Case holders for a press and/or a primer seater for the Russian and Special are the same. The 44 Colt being slightly smaller in rim size, takes a holder a bit smaller.  I use a Lee hand primer and the Special takes a #11 as does the Russian. The 44 Colt uses a #9. Lee press holders are the same numbers as the hand primer (there is a difference in the Lee hand primers and Lee press brass holders construction). A RCBS press takes #18 for the Russian and Special. Read once that the 44 Colt takes the same press holder as the 41 Magnum caliber, a #30. Bought one and its way to tight. Bought a Lee #9 for my press. The Russian and Specials rim diameters run around 0.506- 0.514". The 44 Colt runs 0.479-0.483", a difference of around 0.03", not much but eyeballing them ya can see the difference. FWIW, the 44 Mag takes the same shell holders as the Russian and Special.

I just load and shoot soft cast lead bullets. Started out with a 200 grain Lee flat round nose style bullet but switched over to one of Dick Dastardly's 200 grain Mav Dutchman molds/bullets. They carry more lube than the Lee. Size bullets to .430". Tried .429" but couldn't see much difference so settled on the .430".

As stated, before started out with FFF black, but after reading down in the Storm section of the forum, I switched over to using FF Black in the 44's. Fox Creek Kid had some posts explaining how the FF has a slower pressure curve than FFF resulting in a 'more harmonious outcome'. There's alot of load info on the STORM site if ya do a search, this section also. The 44 Colt isn't a mystery or harder than any other caliber to reload. For smokeless powders, while I've yet to use it in the 44 Colt, it would be no different than in the 44 Special, you'd just have to reduce the charge some. In the 44 Special I had good luck with Titegroup, Win 231/Hodg HP38, Trail Boss, tried some RedDot. The 44 Russian wouldn't be much different, just have to find a powder that works and adjust the charge accordingly. Not a whole lot of 44 Colt loads from the 'big' powder and bullet companies. More info is around now though than back in 2007 when I first started loading for the 44 Colt. Hope some of this lengthy rambling helps ya Pappy. Good Luck.