Out of the box CAS guns - not good enough?

[Russ McCrae]

Biggest thing for me was finding calibers I liked. I'm meeting half way by getting the cylinders rebored for what I want, and is easy to find ammo or reload it. So if you don't like .38 or .45LC don't give up, they have ways of making what you want!!!

[Johnny McCrae]

I bought a pair of Taylor's Smoke Wagons in .38 Special a while back. They are very smooth and worked great right out of the box. I shoot em' bone stock and they have definitely improved my pistol shooting. I like the feel of the checkered grips.

[Bugscuffle]

For new shooters, the first couple of years or maybe more the limiting factor is learning the ins and outs of the matches. Learning to shoot quickly and accurately, learning to reload the shotgun quickly and things like that. There are alot of things to work on. A half a second saved because your legs are strong and you can run a little bit faster to make the next station is the same as a half a second gained because you spent $500.00 having your lever action short stroked and slicked up.The guns can be made faster, but it's folly to think that you can slick up you guns enough to overcome poor technique and teqnique comes with pratice and learning. Remember that the search for great technique does not always lead to great speed, but the search for great speed does always lead to great technique.

[Marshal Deadwood]

I like them Smoke Wagons, Johnny. A pard I shoot with has a pair, and with the  slimmer grips, they have a good 'Colt' feel to them.

Deadwood

[cpt dan blodgett]

This is my some what limited experience.

Ruger Vaqueros Original and New generally shot when (work right out of the box) and where you point them.

Baikal shotguns can be frustrating out of the box.  Shells will not shuck without being pulled and when you open the action the default opening is about 3/4 open with the lower portion of the chambers still blocked by the breach.  If you push the barrels all the way open and push the locking lever to the left the barrels will stay completely open.  If you do not touch the loading lever they will return to the 3/4 open position if you let them.  This can be rather frustrationg.
I was able to polish my chambers enough that the shells now shuck easily makes no difference if slick sided Win AA or Ribbed Federals.   Used a long cleaning jag and about 3 inch wide swath of green scotch bright pad bought in packets from Sams or Walmart (cut across short axis)  Chucked it up in my drill press, was difficult to get into chambers intially.  Turned on the drill press and raised and lowered the barrels slowly until they got warm.  Shut off drill press and changed to other barrel.  Repeated process numerous times.  Periodically reassembled shotgun and checked shucking with fired shells.  Chambers start to get pretty shiney.  Quit when I thought it was ok.

Fired a match and found still did not shuck reliably but much better than before.

Cleaned gun and honed somemore.  Ended up doing about 30 - 45 seconds per barrel with a little headlight renewal polishing compound.  Work great now.

I have an old circa 1995 rossi 1892 that is pretty stiff and somewhat frustrationg as It slowes me down.  Slciking one of these may be money well spent.

If you are in it just for fun and don't really care what the closck says out of box guns even the Rossi will work.  I have heard the newer guns are a lot slicker out of the box than older ones.

[maarty]

Shoot them out of the box, no slicking or short stroking.

They didn't do it in the old days so we shouldn't either. I love hearing people talking about short stroking their rifles and saying "If they could have done it back then they would have" my reply is always "Well hell, mount a laser on there as well cause if they could have done that they would have"

[Two-Step]

Does steak sauce make a steak good or does it cover the inadequacies of the chef and taste of poorly prepared meat?
You can sprinkle powdered sugar on a turd and call it a donut. But, at the end of the day it is still a POS.
To a point, modifications can make any gun better. But no amount of customizing will make a crap gun great.

I am not in the business of promoting certain brand names but I will tell you that some manufacturers are better than others. I also know that just because a gun is more expensive than others, does not make it better. In some cases, the high price one pays is for the name of the manufacturer on the gun, not for the quality of the gun.

In general, Rugers are thought by many, to be the best all around 6-shooter to have. But, as good as they may be, you will quickly notice that there are plenty of ways to improve them.... which is true for any gun, no matter who's name is stamped on it.
Is it good enough? Yes.
Could it be better? Yes

[rickk]

The New Vaqueros are the best Ruger SA ever made. I have quite a few Rugers, and while they are all good, they all tolerated a bit of polishing and spring changing here and there to make them better.

I bought a couple of New Vaqueros last year. Having been down this road with Ruger SA's before, I was all set to slick them up. All the normal places that can stand some help were already helped by the factory. I didn't mess with them, I just started shooting them.

Shotgun, I got a couple of Double Trigger Stoeger Supreme coach guns (S.S. receivers). I polished the chambers and put in aftermarket firing pins (never had a trouble with the original pins however).  The reason I have two of them is sort of a long story. I would suggest that unless you do your research first, stick with the double trigger.  I also replaced the factory screw-in chokes with a set of aftermarket stainless I.C. chokes so that both barrels would pattern the same.

Rifle, wanted a .45 to match the revolvers. I looked for a Rossi 92... couldn't find one (long back order at the time). I looked for a Marlin in 45..couldn't find one. Factory told me they dropped that caliber when they moved out of CT.  Wound up with an HRA Big Boy.  I had some feeding issues with it that the factory fixed no charge, no grief. It works flawlessly now and I didn't have to pay anything to slick it up.


So, the only one I spent any after-out-of-the-box money on was the shotgun - maybe $200 in parts and  the chamber hone to do two shotguns.  No gunsmith need to do any of the work... it is all pretty simple.

Rick

[Griff]

Forgive me, but I'm sure you meant to say

The New Vaqueros are the best Ruger SA ever made....
Rick

Except for the 3-screw Blackhawks! 

[Daniel Nighteyes]

I was able to polish my [SxS shotgun] chambers enough that the shells now shuck easily makes no difference if slick sided Win AA or Ribbed Federals.   Used a long cleaning jag and about 3 inch wide swath of green scotch bright pad bought in packets from Sams or Walmart (cut across short axis)  Chucked it up in my drill press, was difficult to get into chambers intially.  Turned on the drill press and raised and lowered the barrels slowly until they got warm.  Shut off drill press and changed to other barrel.  Repeated process numerous times.  Periodically reassembled shotgun and checked shucking with fired shells.  Chambers start to get pretty shiney.  Quit when I thought it was ok.

Fired a match and found still did not shuck reliably but much better than before.

Cleaned gun and honed somemore.  Ended up doing about 30 - 45 seconds per barrel with a little headlight renewal polishing compound.  Work great now.

Something that worked for me on a brand-new SxS that already had halfway decent chambers -- an oversized bore mop chucked into an electric drill using the end of an old cleaning rod.  Liberally coat the bore mop with Colgate Toothpaste (the old fashioned, plain-white kind).

Turn on the drill motor, work the bore mop repeatedly up and down the chamber.  Alternate chambers.  Remove. Clean out all the toothpaste and oil the shotgun appropriately.  Shoot a match.

For me, one application was enough to make the chambers able to shuck out the empties slicker'n -- um -- never mind.  I repeat it every now and then, just to keep the naturally-forming residue under some kind of control.

Plain ol' Colgate Toothpaste is just about the finest cleaning/rubbing/honing compound there is, and heck knows its cheap enough...

[Stillwater]

Forgive me, but I'm sure you meant to say Except for the 3-screw Blackhawks! 

I will agree with you on that...!

Bill

[Bibbyman]

I bought these matched Uberti Cattleman 45 Colts through Gunbroker. I've been reading stories about all makes and brands of guns that were defective right out of the box or needing a lot of attention.   I got the impression new guns automatically needed to be sent off for professional help.  I was pleased to find both Cattleman to be very good in every way.  They even shoot point of aim.

I decided to do nothing but shot and clean them.  But... you know how it is.  I had an order in to MidwayUSA so I added a set of Wolff springs.   Just one set.  I installed the set in one gun.   The results were underwhelming.   You could make yourself believe the Wolff spring gun was had a litte lighter hammer and trigger pull but I would have to have measuring gages to trll for sure.  I had Mary try both guns and tell me what gun had the lighter action.   She couldn't tell.  For the small improvement,  if any, I just have spare springs.

[Modoc]

To me, it completely depends on the gun.  I have had some that out of the box needed an action job because they were out of time, mainly less expensive revolvers.  Others, I just did a detial strip and cleaning, reassembled and have shot ever since.  Then there is my 1897 which is still not good to go, but it was a box of parts when I got it for half of a song . 

I actually had an action job done one time that made my Rossi soooo smooooooth, but it didn't last 2 more years of regular CAS competition.  This taught me to follow the old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Now, My Norinco 1887 needed some work to make it function reliably, but that has proven to be the exception, not the rule.

On the other hand, knowing that your equipment is capable of being extremely accurate, smooth, and reliable gives you a great deal of confidence.  Again, this is from experience.

[Coffinmaker]

I don't know why I haven't been here before.  Strange that.  However, I'd like to throw a couple of opinions out there from the standpoint
of a long term Gunsmith, working on and tuning CAS guns.
When this topic first started way back in the way back, most CAS guns weren't all that wonderful.  But ........ for the most part, they at
least worked.
Today, there have been great improvements in the guns available to CAS players.  Some things have not changed however.  Most CAS guns
are very "over sprung."  Most of the difficulty in operation stems from those springs.  Springs changes are something almost every CAS
player can do at home.  AFTER BUYING A GOOD SET OF GUN SCREWDRIVERS.  Simply changing out the springs can make a very good
improvement in the usability of out of the box guns.
There is, of course, a litany of things to do to make CAS guns competitive.  Most of that is a waste of money for a newbie.  Swap out the
springs and then play with em for a while.  Have Fun.

Coffinmaker