Out of the box CAS guns - not good enough?

[Griff]

Well I have to say that I am so glad I read this post, because I was, as I suppose every new commer, is under the impression that you HAVE to get action work done on all your firearms... "Whew" What a relief, now I can make a better choice on the guns I want. I was bassing the future purchase on having to spend more money on action work. I as most, want to get into it for the fun of it not the competition. The only question that I have now is all the SxS's I have looked at have a tight break open action. What as a newbie, can I do to remedy this when I do buy a SxS.

The shotgun that is CAS legal and opens fully right out of the box is the IGA/Stoeger Coachgun.  You don't have to do anything to it.

I carry my Cattleman when I hunt on my friends ranch near Jacksboro, TX. I use it and my other rifles/shotguns as tools so I want them dependable. I sure don't want that Cattleman man to go off usless I have cocked it and pointing down range. If I can afford it I may set a pistol up for just CAS and nothing else.
LazyK Pejay

My Colt SAAs will probably not pass an armorer's inspection at any major department because they are light.  But, I have shot them and qualified with them when I was a Sheriff's Deputy as off-duty guns.  the point is, that I've shot them thousands of rounds since they have been worked on, and I'm comfortable with the action and function.  They are safe in my hands, a newcomers'?  Let me put this way, I ain't loanin' any gun out without first ensuring myself that the person is knowledgeable and comfortable with SAs and has handled the gun in question prior to any live amo being put in their hands.

[Maddog]

I do not know squat about SASS / CAS shooting but I have been thinking about it for some time  I own several single action revolvers mostly 44 magnums but no rifle or shotgun  I am also timid about going to an event to watch because thats my nature.  Its easy to reply to a group of faceless people but just showing up at a match and not knowing anyone is hard for me.

[Camille Eonich]

I do not know squat about SASS / CAS shooting but I have been thinking about it for some time  I own several single action revolvers mostly 44 magnums but no rifle or shotgun  I am also timid about going to an event to watch because thats my nature.  Its easy to reply to a group of faceless people but just showing up at a match and not knowing anyone is hard for me.

As soon as you show up you will know someone 'cause they will come over and introduce themself and welcome you. 

[L.G.]

That's how I started in it, called the closest range that had Cowboy shooting, called the person in charge, said I was interesed and asked what did I need.  He said I needed to show up, and have fun!   Figuring out what firearms and clothing I needed could come later, that there would be plenty of people glad to help me get started.

[Ed Clintwood]

I agree with LG.  I called a range and went over, had to borrow a holster, and my shotgun belt was a bit small and didn't reallly work too well, but there were plenty of folks to help out and fun was had by all.

[Shotgun Toots]

I've recently obtained an original Winchester '97 takedown pump shotgun (manufactured in 1914) which has been thoroughly checked by a professional as safe to shoot.  Here's my question.  There was some white paint on the stock that I carefully removed with quadruple "0" steel wool, (wrapped the rest of the gun in a plastic bag which was taped shut to keep out debris).  I don't believe the wood was originally varnished and it sure has lots of dings in it.  Should I oil the wood to protect it and if so, what should I use?  I've used Murphy's Oil Soap to clean it some.  This isn't a beautiful shotgun, but shoots well and has lots of character.

Thanks for your help.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Boiled linseed oil is what I use. You can get it from Brownells or Midway under the name, Lin-Speed oil.

http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=8004&title=GUNSTOCK+OIL

[Shotgun Toots]

Thanks, Marshall, I do that.  Appreciate the advice.

[Griff]

I do not know squat about SASS / CAS shooting but I have been thinking about it for some time  I own several single action revolvers mostly 44 magnums but no rifle or shotgun  I am also timid about going to an event to watch because thats my nature.  Its easy to reply to a group of faceless people but just showing up at a match and not knowing anyone is hard for me.

Maddog, just get out and do it.  I saw a guy at my local target range with an EOT t-shirt in 1985, went up and asked where he got it, we talked for several hours, and I now consider him one of my closest friends.  We live way far apart and haven't seen each other in years, but stay in touch via the 'net.  Yep, he invited me to their next shoot, and I've been having fun ever since!

[Curley Cole]

As for getting action jobs, Me and Old Top sorta feel that the old time cowboys shot 'em outta the box, and that should be good enough for us. I have an old Dakota that is really heavy in the hammer/trigger pull, but I have shot it so much over the last 25 years (in fact I could probalby tell you which of my guns I was holding blindfolded) I am used to the feel. MY GW2's feel smooth outta the box, so long story, I like to learn to use the gun as i get it....that's just me, and I aint tryin to be top dawg anyways...just shoot clean.
cc

[Mustang Gregg]

We (for the most part) do our own gunsmithin'. 
We dang-neart ALWAYS put lighter hammer & SOMETIMES lighter trigger springs for ease of operation in rifles & revolvers.  Not as much on the SxS's. 
We also smooth up (deburr edges on some slidin' & rotatin' guts) on some brand new guns.  And lube them ('zactly like St George said) with Break Free & good gun grease.

Many used guns we have are much smoother jus' from years of use.

Mustang Gregg

[fourfingersofdeath]

I do not know squat about SASS / CAS shooting but I have been thinking about it for some time  I own several single action revolvers mostly 44 magnums but no rifle or shotgun  I am also timid about going to an event to watch because thats my nature.  Its easy to reply to a group of faceless people but just showing up at a match and not knowing anyone is hard for me.

We all were new he first time we turned up. I went for a look, asked a few questions, next thing I know they had scrounged around, I had shotshells in my shirt pocket, a passel of borrowed guns, a too small gunbelt tied up with a bit of rope, a borrowed set of eye protectors, disposable ear plugs and I was shooting cowboy in my baseball cap!

I just got back from a three day shoot and the only ugly scene I witnessed was two friends arguing over who was going to lend me a spare rifle after mine broke (actually rattled apart, still ok when I can get it back together).

You'll get a heaping helping of hospitality!

[JL McGillicuddy]

There are a number of gun dealers around the country that specialize in cowboy action guns.  They often have stocks of used, tuned firearms available for purchase at fair prices. 

Ask around at your local matches and see if there is one in your area or one that folks in your area suggest.  I know of at least one such dealer that will let you work out payments to get what you want.  (If you want to know, PM me.)

There is also the SASS classifieds as well as classifieds on various club sites.  That will help you perhaps find what you are looking for without breaking the bank.  Post a Want To Buy ad if there is something you are looking for specifically.  Often it turns out that someone has been thinking of selling that extra (whatever you are after) and just needed the push of someone asking to go ahead and sell it.   

You can buy off the shelf guns and play also, if that is what you want to do.  You may not win any speed side matches with what you are shooting, but most of them will work out of the box. 

For leather, you can again ask around at your local matches.  There may be someone that has a rig that they haven't used in a while that would be perfect for you.  There may also be a largely unknown small local maker that can make you quite nice custom gear for a good starter price, also. 

Just for Pete's sake, go to a match BEFORE you buy all your gear.  It will save you time and grief.  Most of the time there is someone (or several someones) that will let you try out their gear.  Guns, what have you.  You can avoid wasting money and making it more expensive by going to a match and asking around.

Take care!
Jack Lee

[Top Kick Ken]

Best advice I can give is to find out about your SASS/CAS club.  Make contact with the club's Territorial Govenor or POC.  Whether you are a novice or veteran shooter, most clubs will have extra guns, ammo, and the necessary equipment to get you started.  When I started, I had only one pistol.  (CA has strict rules on how many guns you can purchase in a one month period.)  But, club members loaned me the firearms that I needed to compete.  I supplied my own ammunition and offered up my spent brass and shotgun shells to the kind members that let me use their guns.  I offered to clean the loaner weapons I used during the shoots.  Using loaner guns, is a good way to get an idea of what your options are in purchasing firearms. 

I bought guns that I like; they are stock, right out of the box.  No modifications.  I use my forearms for other things besides CAS shooting, so I purposely bought firearms that I could use for more than one purpose.  I will never be a top 10% shooter, but I have a lot of fun shooting.  For me it is shhoting as fast as I feel comfortable, while always aiming for that "Clean Match" designation,  all while dressing as authenticly as possible.  For me it is another way to connect to western history and my families history.  I keep track of my shooting times and scores and try to improve at each mew match. 

The bottom line:  Be safe and HAVE FUN!

[Pony Racer]

I shot cowboy for about two years before I messed with action jobs with guns.

As SP already mentioned early in this thread - after two years - I knew the guns well - their point of aim and their internals.

Then I could pick and choose what I wanted worked on and understood better what various action job things would do for my guns.

as far as leather - if you are patient and do some searching on the internet and at local clubs - you can alwasy find used leather and or people who do great local work for less than what the bigger names are charging.

My two cents

PR

[Thai Fighter]

Frankly, if you're afraid of the cost, then shop around and get some used guns.  CAS is a pretty inexpensive hobby.  I've had others that are more mainstream and a LOT more expensive.

This is all relative...

IDPA runs me:

$40 annual membership
$500 cost of Springfield 1911
$30 belt
$30 holster

Total $600 give or take before fees, range, ammo, etc.

CAS

$55 SASS membership
$1,000 for 2 SAA type guns on average (be it Californians, Great Westerns, Smoke Wagons, etc... give or take $200)
$500 for a shotgun
$500 for a rifle (cheapest being the Rossi 92, otherwise you're looking at north of $1k for your '66s, '73s, etc)
$200 for a dual gun leather rig
$100 make or buy your cart
$100 for shotgun cartridge belt, and other access.
$200 minimum for your "costume" and that price is just boots, britches, shirt, hat that's just "basic"

Average total $2,655.


I don't know about you but $2,655 is a far cry from $600 and no where near the neighborhood of "inexpensive".  Now if you're talking a golf habit or bass fishing with a boat, etc... I can see your point.

[Thai Fighter]

To weigh in on the actual out-of-box (OOB) question, it depends.

I've got 3 of 4 single action pistols that could have gone to the range untouched.  The fourth is out of time, gouges the cylinder and locks up.  So some may or may not be able to truly get an out of box that'll work.  That being said... my story will make my point for me.

I started IDPA a couple of years ago believing as always that I should fight like I train and that means training like I fight.  I won't go into the M9, but I'll tell you that for my concealed carry I wanted to be more proficient with it than just a day or two a year at the range. 

I started IDPA with my carry De Santis holster, my Glock 23, and the only thing I had to buy was a magazine holster.  I learned a lot about the manual of arms in situations with my Glock that pure range time doesn't get you.  I was never the slowest, but also never the fastest.  Towards the end of the first year I was the upper faster half of the club.  That's with a shorter barrel, without a trigger job, fiber optic sights, or fancy holsters.  So yes, you can start CAS, IDPA or whatever (not IPSC though..) with just an OOB piece.

I finally succumbed though when I tried my friend's fiber optic sighted Glock 19 and cut 3 seconds off my time with the "fancy" sights and 1 inch longer barrel!  That's when my hobby gun, the 1911, came out of the safe and started being used in IDPA.  So I got corrupted and started... gasp, "gaming".  A trigger job, fancy sights, and a Kydex rig later I'm a perversion of who I was when I started IDPA.  I'm so ashamed.

[Stillwater]

Interesting thread..., an old thread, but interesting never-the-less.

I haven't attended a match yet, however, I have bought two new, Cimarron rifles. I'm a old gun nut, so I know what I'm doing, when it comes to firearms.

Just with the Two Cimmaron rifles, one is an 1873 24" Deluxe Sporting Rifle in 38-40, the other is another 1873 24" Deluxe Sporting Rifle in 44-40, I am in this, up to now, at about $2700.00, just for the rifles.

I wanted the rifles, despite the cost...! I asked Cimarron to hand picked them from their stock, and I got a couple of beauties.

I want one more 1873 24" Deluxe Sporting Rifle, this one will be in 32-20. And, I want a Cimarron 1876 in 45-75, if the 1876 is made by Uberti.

I bought the Cimarrons because of the extra, original barrel stamping that Cimarron puts on them. It makes them look a liittle more original.

CZ just came out with a 12 GA, SXS Coach gun, and it is a beauty. I wanted the CZ because of the beauty, and the quality, of the firearm. That was $800.00 and change for the new CZ.

I already had a TOZ (Russian) 12 GA, SXS coach gun in good unfired condition. The problem with the TOZ is that the finish is so utilitarian, and it has strong hammer springs, which I call the hammer springs from hell. I will eventually sell the TOZ to some lucky person.

I want several Cimarron SAA's, two in each caliber, to match the three Cimarron 1873 rifles. However, since I live in the state of granola, (California, the land of the fruits, flakes and nuts) I will only be able to purchase one handgun a month. So, unless I can get a FTF deal from somebody, It is going to take quiet a while to acquire the SAA's I want.

I'm not wealthy; I live on a fixed income. However, I know how to save for what I want.

Bill

[cpt dan blodgett]

Rugers will be out of the box reliable over built and darn near indestructable.
Baikal now Remmington Spartan shot guns will be reliable, very stiff and will need chambers honed to shuck shells quickly but the least expensive.
Just about any rifle will do.  They slick up over time with normal wear and if one can take them apart, debur that probably will help a lot.
for 99.9 percent of the new shooters out there if you put away $ 2 per week you will have enough money to buy slicked up race guns long before your skills exceed the capabilities of the guns and the guns are the only thing keeping you from winning EOT or winter range.

Get what feels good, shoots good enough and will be semi reliable and have fun.  Winning will come a long time later and is not necessary to enjoy the sport.  I am still timed with and Hour Glass with rifles and pistols and a Calendar with the Shot gun, but I doubt if any one has any more fun.

[joec]

Interesting thread..., an old thread, but interesting never-the-less.

I haven't attended a match yet, however, I have bought two new, Cimarron rifles. I'm a old gun nut, so I know what I'm doing, when it comes to firearms.

Just with the Two Cimmaron rifles, one is an 1873 24" Deluxe Sporting Rifle in 38-40, the other is another 1873 24" Deluxe Sporting Rifle in 44-40, I am in this, up to now, at about $2700.00, just for the rifles.

I wanted the rifles, despite the cost...! I asked Cimarron to hand picked them from their stock, and I got a couple of beauties.

I want one more 1873 24" Deluxe Sporting Rifle, this one will be in 32-20. And, I want a Cimarron 1876 in 45-75, if the 1876 is made by Uberti.

I bought the Cimarrons because of the extra, original barrel stamping that Cimarron puts on them. It makes them look a liittle more original.

CZ just came out with a 12 GA, SXS Coach gun, and it is a beauty. I wanted the CZ because of the beauty, and the quality, of the firearm. That was $800.00 and change for the new CZ.

I already had a TOZ (Russian) 12 GA, SXS coach gun in good unfired condition. The problem with the TOZ is that the finish is so utilitarian, and it has strong hammer springs, which I call the hammer springs from hell. I will eventually sell the TOZ to some lucky person.

I want several Cimarron SAA's, two in each caliber, to match the three Cimarron 1873 rifles. However, since I live in the state of granola, (California, the land of the fruits, flakes and nuts) I will only be able to purchase one handgun a month. So, unless I can get a FTF deal from somebody, It is going to take quiet a while to acquire the SAA's I want.

I'm not wealthy; I live on a fixed income. However, I know how to save for what I want.

Bill

As for the CZ shotgun look for a Liberty I or II it is the same shotgun. I have one I got for a bit over $300 used and a fine shotgun. Now mine is in 24" barrel but the 20" are out there all over the place. They run in the $400 range from what I've seen. Oh and they are made in Turkey by the way.