1873 Carrier Block Defective?

KrazyK · September 17, 2022, 04:25:37 PM

Hi Everyone! I just joined this week and this will be my first post. I am grateful to be a part of this community. I just acquired my first Miroku Winchester 1873 in 357/38 spl and plan to better myself with this rifle and hope to soon join up for some fun competition!

Unfortunately I am already having a problem with my 1873. It is the competition high grade carbine with round barrel. When I eject the spent cartridge, there are moments it'll get hung up between the carrier block and the extractor. I have disassembled and looked for everything and just got stumped as to what could be the issue. As I was slowly running some dummy rounds through today, I noticed the the top of the carrier block doesn't seem normal to me. The top two edges are both different. One side swoops up to a sharp point and the other is rounded off quite a bit, hence is actually lower than the other side. Also noticed the inner edges are not clean and very choppy. I have a feeling I have a bad carrier block which I would think is a warranty issue. Can anyone confirm if this block is possibly causing my problem? Thanks Y'all!!!

Abilene · September 17, 2022, 04:51:33 PM

Howdy KK and welcome.

I'm not sure I understand the description of the jam. Are you ejecting slowly, or with force. Since there is only an extractor and no ejector on a '73, the carrier acts as the ejector, hitting the bottom of the brass casing and kicking it up and out of the extractor hook. Going real slow can make it hang up a bit. As for the shape of the carrier top, I have heard something about them coming with some shaping to make the cartridge kick off to the side (although lots of Mirokus throw them forward). Maybe it is related to that. There are other Miroku owners around these parts so I'm sure one of them can tell you how it compares to theirs.

That is some gorgeous case coloring! Does it have nice wood as well?

KrazyK · September 17, 2022, 04:57:19 PM

Quote from: Abilene on September 17, 2022, 04:51:33 PM
Howdy KK and welcome.

I'm not sure I understand the description of the jam. Are you ejecting slowly, or with force. Since there is only an extractor and no ejector on a '73, the carrier acts as the ejector, hitting the bottom of the brass casing and kicking it up and out of the extractor hook. Going real slow can make it hang up a bit. As for the shape of the carrier top, I have heard something about them coming with some shaping to make the cartridge kick off to the side (although lots of Mirokus throw them forward). Maybe it is related to that. There are other Miroku owners around these parts so I'm sure one of them can tell you how it compares to theirs.

That is some gorgeous case coloring! Does it have nice wood as well?

What you are describing is exactly what I have going on. Going slow will definitely hang up more, but when putting authority into it, it's pretty smooth sailing, but will have it's little hang-up here and there, where I would have to jimmy the lever a bit to get it loose and then keep going. Wasn't sure if that is common, or not. And thank you for the compliments on the coloring! The wood is incredible quality with great looks!

Cliff Fendley · September 17, 2022, 07:04:05 PM

It does look a bit funky compared to an original or a Uberti. So much so that I would almost bet it's meant to be that way. My first thought was same as Abilene mentioned and thought maybe to cause the cartridges to eject at an angle which to me is silly, that's what hats are for.

Abilene · September 17, 2022, 07:05:08 PM

Well, let's see the rest of the carbine!

KrazyK · September 17, 2022, 08:08:00 PM

Quote from: Cliff Fendley on September 17, 2022, 07:04:05 PM
It does look a bit funky compared to an original or a Uberti. So much so that I would almost bet it's meant to be that way. My first thought was same as Abilene mentioned and thought maybe to cause the cartridges to eject at an angle which to me is silly, that's what hats are for.

The funny part is, it throws the casings forward 90% of the time. May have to contact Winchester on this one, just to confirm if this block is good.

KrazyK · September 17, 2022, 08:21:46 PM

Here you go Abilene!

Abilene · September 17, 2022, 08:35:48 PM

Well like I said it seems that most Miroku '73's do throw the brass forward, which is a problem for getting your brass back on many stages at matches. I have seen some mods for grinding certain areas of the top of the carrier to help with that.

Thanks for the pics. Super-nice! I have seen really fancy Miroku rifles but I think this is the first fancy carbine I've seen.

KrazyK · September 17, 2022, 08:48:59 PM

Quote from: Abilene on September 17, 2022, 08:35:48 PM
Well like I said it seems that most Miroku '73's do throw the brass forward, which is a problem for getting your brass back on many stages at matches. I have seen some mods for grinding certain areas of the top of the carrier to help with that.

Thanks for the pics. Super-nice! I have seen really fancy Miroku rifles but I think this is the first fancy carbine I've seen.

Thank you! If I am not mistaken, this carbine is new for 2022.

King Medallion · September 18, 2022, 10:00:43 AM

Looks great, nice wood! That will really look awesome once some natural aging settles in.

Tronicst1 · September 19, 2022, 11:40:01 AM

My Miroku / Winchester 1873 has a carrier block that is shaped exactly like yours.
It also throws spent brass forwards like yours. Mine is a .357 mag / 38 spl and if
I am using 38 spl I get an occasional hangup that I attribute to the shorter length
cartridge. If I am using .357 mag I have no issue with hangups at all.

wildman1 · September 20, 2022, 06:59:42 AM

I had one that I bought and the carrier looked similar to yours, someone had ground the top enough that it wasn't ejecting the spent cartridge before the rear of the carrier would jam it against the bolt. I removed a very small amount of material from the rear of the carrier and solved the problem. Run the lever real slow with an empty in it and you will see what I'm talking about. I only did this after a smith told me I would need a new carrier. I figured if I need a new carrier I couldn't hurt the old one.
Just go slow, it doesn't need a lot removed.
wM1

KrazyK · September 20, 2022, 07:52:09 AM

Quote from: wildman1 on September 20, 2022, 06:59:42 AM
I had one that I bought and the carrier looked similar to yours, someone had ground the top enough that it wasn't ejecting the spent cartridge before the rear of the carrier would jam it against the bolt. I removed a very small amount of material from the rear of the carrier and solved the problem. Run the lever real slow with an empty in it and you will see what I'm talking about. I only did this after a smith told me I would need a new carrier. I figured if I need a new carrier I couldn't hurt the old one.
Just go slow, it doesn't need a lot removed.
wM1

I did that exact thing you just said before I saw your post! I'm happy to see I am not the only one that had this going on. I was working the action very slow while ejecting a snap cap, which hangs up more than real ammo and I took my dremel and grooved out the back shelf area to look just like my Uberti and sure enough! It worked! I don't understand why Winchester wouldn't have this figured out, it being advertised as a competition high grade model. I was excited to see how awesome this rifle really was, and then that happened. Don't get me wrong, I love this rifle a lot! The carrier block is the only hiccup they need to figure out.

KrazyK · September 20, 2022, 07:57:22 AM

Quote from: Tronicst1 on September 19, 2022, 11:40:01 AM
My Miroku / Winchester 1873 has a carrier block that is shaped exactly like yours.
It also throws spent brass forwards like yours. Mine is a .357 mag / 38 spl and if
I am using 38 spl I get an occasional hangup that I attribute to the shorter length
cartridge. If I am using .357 mag I have no issue with hangups at all.

Awesome setup you got there! Yeah the throwing forward wasn't a good touch in my opinion. I like how my Uberti throws straight up. Wish there was a way to change that. Maybe there is one someone knows of. But I agree, the 357's do eject better, which I've heard is the case with almost all these rifles. Unfortunate though, since 38 special is a love of mine. Tried to extend the bullet out a bit further to lengthen the cartridge enough, but then the cartridge doesn't look sexy.

KrazyK · September 20, 2022, 09:21:06 AM

Do any of you with the Miroku 1873's notice that when levering, about a quarter way back, the hammer applies a bit hard resistance and sometimes it doesn't? Curious if I was along with this, or not.

DeaconKC · September 20, 2022, 11:51:55 AM

Sir, welcome to the place and congratulations on such a beautiful carbine! Hopefully you will quickly get it running as good as it looks!

Tronicst1 · September 20, 2022, 02:37:28 PM

Quote from: KrazyK on September 20, 2022, 09:21:06 AM
Do any of you with the Miroku 1873's notice that when levering, about a quarter way back, the hammer applies a bit hard resistance and sometimes it doesn't? Curious if I was along with this, or not.

I know that if the hammer is forward and you run the leaver there is some resistance when the bolt pushes the hammer back
but if the hammer is back and you run the leaver there is no resistance because the hammer is already back. Is this what you are
talking about ?

KrazyK · September 20, 2022, 06:24:00 PM

Quote from: Tronicst1 on September 20, 2022, 02:37:28 PM
I know that if the hammer is forward and you run the leaver there is some resistance when the bolt pushes the hammer back
but if the hammer is back and you run the leaver there is no resistance because the hammer is already back. Is this what you are
talking about ?

Yes, but I didn't go into much detail. Was in the middle of getting the kids ready for school and had to jam to work. LOL! But I guess what I am asking, is how much resistance should there be when levering the hammer back? If I was going into it with authority, there's no issue. But when levering back at a medium pace, it has some good resistance at a 1/4 way back and then lets free with ease. But there are moments when there is no resistance and it smooth as butter through the whole pass. Almost as if something shifted in the mainspring and let the hammer back with more ease. Kinda strange. This is probably something that would need to be handled in person to figure out, I assume.

Tronicst1 · September 20, 2022, 10:05:15 PM

Does the same thing happen if you thumb the hammer back ?

Is the gun cold or hot when there is a change ?

Could it be the toggle link and not the hammer ?

KrazyK · September 21, 2022, 12:17:24 AM

Quote from: Tronicst1 on September 20, 2022, 10:05:15 PM
Does the same thing happen if you thumb the hammer back ?

Is the gun cold or hot when there is a change ?

Could it be the toggle link and not the hammer ?

When thumbing the hammer back it's all consistent. I pay attention to it when its cold. When shooting I cycle fast, so I don't feel any difference. I guess that's where it counts anyhow. I can't expect action job smoothness out of the box I guess.