National Congress

[Two Bit Charlie]

Has the agenda been set yet for the Congress?

Reed "Two-Bit Charlie" Van Ness

[River City John]

Agenda Items for the 44th Congress, 2022
1. Proposed revision to By-Law 4: Elections, submitted by John Irons
Background: In order to publish the Senate candidates platforms and ballot for Territorial Senate in the Fall Shootist magazine, the date for submission of Senate candidates needs to be received by July 15th.
4-2. Nominations for Territorial Senator must be received by the Secretary in their entirety, including the candidates' platforms, by 31 August 15 July each year. The election of Territorial Senators will be completed by 1 December each year.
Strikethrough text is deleted, Bold is new text.
2. Proposed revision to By-Law 10: Shooting Classes, submitted by John Irons
Proposal to eliminate the separation of shooting classes by age with exception of Junior and Adult.
10-1 NCOWS shooting classes are unique and offer the shooter a greater variety of firearm options. These options are in keeping with the various ways in which someone might have equipped themselves in the Old West. All NCOWS shooting classes, as established by By- Law must be made available to all shooters at each National, Regional or Charter Posse Shoot. These classes shall be:
Men's and Women's Four Gun Smokeless Shootist: Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Three Gun Smokeless Shootist: Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Two Gun Smokeless Shootist Working Cowboy: Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Four Gun Black Powder Shootist: Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rimfire cartridges, and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip. Shotguns may NOT include any model of pump shotgun.
Men's and Women's Three Gun Black Powder Shootist: Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute

powder in all firearms except those chambered for rimfire cartridges, and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Two Gun Black Powder Shootist Working Cowboy: Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rimfire cartridges, and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Four Gun Smokeless Duelist: Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Three Gun Smokeless Duelist: Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Two Gun Smokeless Duelist Working Cowboy: Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Four Gun Black Powder Duelist: Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rimfire cartridges, and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip. Shotguns may NOT include any model of pump shotgun.
Men's and Women's Three Gun Black Powder Duelist: Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rimfire cartridges, and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Two Gun Black Powder Duelist Working Cowboy: Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rimfire cartridges, and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Boy's and Girl's Four Gun Juniors: Shall be open to those 12 through 17 only. Shooter uses two pistols, one rifle and one shotgun. May use any of the above shooting styles.
Boy's and Girl's Two Gun Juniors: Shall be open to those 12 through 17 only. Shooter uses one pistol and one rifle. May use any of the above shooting styles.
Men's and Women's Senior Four Gun Smokeless Shootist: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
   
Men's and Women's Senior Three Gun Smokeless Shootist: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Senior Two Gun Smokeless Shootist Working Cowboy: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Senior Four Gun Black Powder Shootist: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges, and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip. Shotguns may NOT include any model of pump shotgun.
Men's and Women's Senior Three Gun Black Powder Shootist: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges, and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Senior Two Gun Black Powder Shootist Working Cowboy: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges, and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Senior Four Gun Smokeless Duelist: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Senior Three Gun Smokeless Duelist: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Senior Two Gun Smokeless Duelist Working Cowboy: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Senior Four Gun Black Powder Duelist: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip. Shotguns may NOT include any model of pump shotgun.
Men's and Women's Senior Three Gun Black Powder Duelist: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot
                                     
black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges, and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Senior Two Gun Black Powder Duelist Working Cowboy: Shall be open to those over age 60 only. Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges, and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Elder Four Gun Smokeless Shootist: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Elder Three Gun Smokeless Shootist: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Elder Two Gun Smokeless Shootist Working Cowboy: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Elder Four Gun Black Powder Shootist: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges, and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip. Shotguns may NOT include any model of pump shotgun.
Men's and Women's Elder Three Gun Black Powder Shootist: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges, and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Elder Two Gun Black Powder Shootist Working Cowboy: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges, and may fire handguns using a two-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Elder Four Gun Smokeless Duelist: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Elder Three Gun Smokeless Duelist: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
                                     
Men's and Women's Elder Two Gun Smokeless Duelist Working Cowboy: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooters may shoot smokeless powder and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Elder Four Gun Black Powder Duelist: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip. Shotguns may NOT include any model of pump shotgun.
Men's and Women's Elder Three Gun Black Powder Duelist: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges, and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Elder Two Gun Black Powder Duelist Working Cowboy: Shall be open to those over the age of 70 only. Shooter uses one pistol and one pistol caliber rifle. No Gun Carts are to be used at any time. Shooter must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute powder in all firearms except those chambered for rim fire cartridges, and must fire handguns using a one-handed grip.
Men's and Women's Four Gun Pistoleer: Shooter uses two pistols, one shotgun, and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters are restricted to the use of percussion revolvers, pre-1873 percussion or original/authentic reproductions of rimfire cartridge pocket pistols, exposed hammer double-barreled shotguns (percussion or cartridge) and reproduction or original pre- 1873 pistol-caliber repeating rifles (e.g. 1860 Henry, Spencer, 1866 Winchester, etc.) Shooters must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute in all firearms except those chambered for rimfire cartridges. Pistols and revolvers must be shot one-handed. Pistoleer shooters will shoot the same course of fire as the other competitors except that in a stage requiring more than two shotgun rounds the Pistoleer shooter would not be required to shoot the extra rounds.
Men's and Women's Three Gun Pistoleer: Shooter uses two pistols and one pistol caliber rifle. Shooters are restricted to the use of percussion revolvers, pre-1873 percussion or original/authentic reproductions of rimfire cartridge pocket pistols, and reproduction or original pre-1873 pistol-caliber repeating rifles (e.g. 1860 Henry, Spencer, 1866 Winchester, etc.) Shooters must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute in all firearms except those chambered for rimfire cartridges. Pistols and revolvers must be shot one- handed.
Men's and Women's Originals: Shooter uses two guns, one rifle and one pistol to complete the course of fire. This class must be shot duelist/traditional style. Must have three originals present to have the class. For complete rules and regulations see Appendix A at the back of the Tally Book.
                 
In addition to these classes, Chartered Clubs and special events may offer additional classes so long as they adhere to the general outline of these By-Laws. (Amended March, 2011) (Amended June 2013)
Strikethrough text is deleted.
3. Proposal to add new shooting class called Al Sieber, submitted by Duane Butt
The following will be added to By-Law 10: Shooting Classes
Al Sieber: Shooter uses one pistol, one shotgun, and one single shot rifle. All shooters shoot in one category regardless of sex, age, or style of shooting. Shooters must shoot black powder or approved black powder substitute in all firearms and may fire handguns using a one-handed or two-handed grip. Shooter must use a single shot rifle and shoot as many shots as needed to complete stage. Shooter must use a percussion or cartridge revolver and shoot five shots only. Shooter must use a percussion or cartridge shotgun and shoot two shots only. Can be shot without shotgun with a 20 second penalty. Rifles over the revolver caliber must use light loads such as 45-70 Gov't 40 grain black powder loads maximum with filler. Maximum bullet weight of 405 grains.

[Tascosa Joe]

Charlie:
You should have received an email from the secretary late last week.
Joe

[River City John]

If any NCOWS members wish to voice their thoughts on the proposed agenda for the 44th Congress to any of your Congress representatives, please take the opportunity.

RCJ

[Mogorilla]

Thanks for posting.  I had not received an email, so first I had seen of these.    I will read them thoroughly before i vote.

[Books OToole]

Hey, guys who didn't get the agenda: check you Spam file.


Books

[Mogorilla]

Well, after ordering spam, spam, spam and eggs, I looked at the folder and nothing there.   Whoever sent it out, PM me and I will make sure the email is correct.

Thansk,

[Abilene]

Well, I didn't get an email either, nothing in spam.

[Tascosa Joe]

Paul:
I sent you the agenda to the email that I have and that has worked before.

Abilene:
I need a name as I do not have permissions to sort the data base for Abilene.  Send me a note to banker@ncows.org
Joe

[bear tooth billy]

Members please read and voice your opinion. Senators and reps have one vote and need
the input from you.

                     BTB

[Mogorilla]

Hi All,
I got Email with Frisco squared away, and Tascosa, received yours as well.   Many thanks.   Yes, we need to hear from you all.   When it comes to voting, I don't want to be this guy.

[Abilene]

Thanks Joe, got the email.  And now it makes more sense.  In RCJ's post above there are no strike-outs, just a repeat of the existing shooting categories.  But the strikeouts are in the email attachment.  I do support that change.

[River City John]

Thanks Joe, got the email.  And now it makes more sense.  In RCJ's post above there are no strike-outs, just a repeat of the existing shooting categories.  But the strikeouts are in the email attachment.  I do support that change.

The strike-outs were in the original post, but for some mystical reason did not translate to my CAS City posting. Life is . . .

[Johnson Barr]

Sooooo.......does Mr. Irons proposes to eliminate all NCOWS members 60 years and older from shooting sanctioned NCOWS matches???

Possibly he should clarify that the 'now' Senior and Elder categories are to be rolled back into the Adult category. Just a thought.       

[Mogorilla]

It is possible he thought they would all renew in carousel.

[Dave T]

I'm only in my second year of membership and I did not receive any e-mails.  My first thought after reading what was in post #2 above was, that's an awful lot of (expletive deleted) rules.

I thought one of the goals of NCOWS was to have fun, and of course do it more historically than IPSC in boots.  Winning a plastic cup or ribbon shouldn't be a top priority in my view.  If I was king for a day I'd just have adults and kids.  Run what ya brung and if you beat everyone else you get the big booby prize.

Having been both on the board of directors and the president of a shooting club in the past, I realize there would be howls of outrage and protests at my simplistic approach.  Guess the point I'm trying to make, in my long winded fashion, is to keep things as simple and uncomplicated as possible.  The post above was just over the top from my perspective.

YMMV,
Dave

[River City John]

I'm only in my second year of membership and I did not receive any e-mails.  My first thought after reading what was in post #2 above was, that's an awful lot of (expletive deleted) rules.

I thought one of the goals of NCOWS was to have fun, and of course do it more historically than IPSC in boots.  Winning a plastic cup or ribbon shouldn't be a top priority in my view.  If I was king for a day I'd just have adults and kids.  Run what ya brung and if you beat everyone else you get the big booby prize.

Having been both on the board of directors and the president of a shooting club in the past, I realize there would be howls of outrage and protests at my simplistic approach.  Guess the point I'm trying to make, in my long winded fashion, is to keep things as simple and uncomplicated as possible.  The post above was just over the top from my perspective.

YMMV,
Dave

Dave T,
to bring some clarity, the Agenda traditionally is sent to the Congress only for their use in canvassing their constituency.
The format has always been set as state the proposal, showing the new wording and then showing the existing rule as written with the old wording to be modified stricken through. This allows Congress to see visually how the rules will change. My re-posting the agenda as sent for some reason did not print the strike-through.
Actually, NCOWS over the past two decades has tended to streamline its rules and shooting categories, as this proposal wil continue to do if passed. Seeing that the majority of NCOWS Adult members are older, there is no real difference in age advantage except between adults and juniors.

[Dave T]

River City,

Well, this is another case of me shooting off my mouth before I have all the facts before me.  My reading of this thread led me to believe the whole membership was to be notified.  Stepped in that one didn't I.

As for "streamlined rules", guess you guys have a different interpretation of those words than I do.  My apologies again for stepping in were I really didn't belong.  I didn't understand my second class citizen status.

There are no NCOWS clubs in Arizona (always thought that's odd) so I've no members to talk to about these things.  I signed up to support the organization so I'll keep quiet and send a check every year.  Good luck to all of you.

Dave

[River City John]

Dave T,
why not spearhead forming a new NCOWS Possee in your area. Start with three members, etc. and submit your petition to Congress.

[Abilene]

River City,

Well, this is another case of me shooting off my mouth before I have all the facts before me.  My reading of this thread led me to believe the whole membership was to be notified.  Stepped in that one didn't I...

Well if you stepped in it, it was because it was right in front of you and hard to miss, and so did I.  Posting the proposed changes "to the world" instead of just in emails to decision-makers would indicate that the info was for all members (which it is, so that we can relay our desires regarding it to our senator).  Since there was no additional verbiage to indicate that "this info was emailed to Senators," how were we to know?  But we know now.