44-40 reloads.

[Im2bent]

Hello all been reading every post I could find here and elsewhere to include the 44-40 journey. I now have a massive headache and am even more confused.  The rifle is a brand new uberti sporting in 44-40 with 24 inch barrel. The rifle is still in jail here in Cali but I want to get a head start on loading some boolits for it. Everything I have found indicates the new ubertis are a .429 bore. I have seen references to using a 200gn JSP bullet. Is this good to go? Powder will be smokeless. Seems RL-7 is the go to but I have zero on hand. Of the powders I have on hand that might be suitable  are a good supply of W231, Unique, Blue Dot, H110, H322 which is a tad slower than RL-7 and may be suitable? So any particular flavor of 200gn JSP? Of these powders best bet for getting close to original velocities which I believe were around 1250fps? I have seen references from I believe 44wcf using TP as a filler? Dies are lee with lee factory crimp die. Brass is starline. Press is Dillon RL550. Of the powders listed best bet and charge for my goal of 200gn JSP at 1250fps or close as is realistic. Thanks for any and all help.

[Im2bent]

Also not set on bullet weight or type. Was leaning towards jacketed as it seems would be "cleaner" in a rifle? Not adverse to lead or jacketed and certainly not stuck on 200gn but that seems to be the go to weight? I do have on hand a god supply of 240gn SWC lead hard cast bullets (for my Smith 29) would these be suitable or too heavy?

[Cliff Fendley]

Unique is a good one. You don't need filler for smokeless. I've never shoot jacketed bullets in 44wcf, always use rnfp lead. You need to search online and find actual loading data for the bullet and powders you are intending to use.

[Ranch 13]

 I like bludot in the 38 and 44wcf and the 45 colt, when not using 3f black powder.
The Nosler 200 gr .429's shoot well in my Winchester 73. Cast bullets at .430 work well.
Depending on the twist in your barrel the 240 gr bullets you have on hand may give you some trouble with tumbling due to the bullet being to long for the twist. But there's only one way to find out.

[Abilene]

SWC bullet shapes often don't feed well in rifles.  Also, be sure the OAL stays below 1.6" or it will jam the action. 

[Cap'n Redneck]

About the only application I can see for Jacketed Soft Point bullets in a Uberti 1873 would be hunting.
Jacketed bullets are not allowed in any cowboy action shooting sport that I now of, and even gas checks on lead bullets are seldom needed at the velocities that the .44-40 toggle link lever action is constructed for.

[Trailrider]

I would slug the bore just to be sure of the groove diameter.  If it does turn out to be .429", I would go with a .430" hard cast bullet. I would load a dummy round to be sure the cartridge will chamber (depending on the wall thickness of the brass...I use Winchester, which has the thinnest wall). Use an expander plug from a .44 Magnum die set. Use a 200-215 gr. flatnose bullet with a crimp groove that will keep the OAL such that it will feed reliably.  I would recommend 8.0 gr Unique.  You do NOT need a filler in this cartridge.

[DeaconKC]

My Uberti 66 has the same barrel as your 73. I have had good results using 8.0 grains of Unique with cast bullets from the Lee 90299 mold, OAL 1.55. This also works well in my handguns for CAS.

[Im2bent]

Thank you for the replies. The twist according to Uberti is 1:20. Will not be doing CAS so no worries there as far as jacketed. So seems the consensus seems to be cast bullets. So no need to worry about powder position? I read some posts that showed some large deviations in velocity depending on powder toward primer or powder forward. No need to worry about pointing muzzle up between shots to get powder near the primer then? What about magnum vs regular primers? Once again thank you all for your help.

[Baltimore Ed]

My .44-40 load is 5.2 gr of Clay Dot under a 200 gr .429 coated rnfp. Use it in an 1866 uberti brass frame musket and an 1891 Winchester 1873 musket. I don't believe a pistol case is ever powder location sensitive plus you don't need filler in a pistol case imo. Your rifle is a toggle link gun, 1860s tech made with modern steel but it has definite limits. Don't go above those limits and you'll be fine.

[Coal Creek Griff]

I played around with various powders, including some judicious use of TP filler (in consultation with John Kort) working on a good smokeless load.  In the end, I just settled on Unique with a 215 grain cast bullet.  There is some velocity spread depending on the position of the powder, but I honestly can't see a major difference on the targets.  When I bench my rifle at longer distances, I may see some issues, but in the end, I'm just plinking from under 75 yards and don't really see enough of a difference to warrant the trouble.  I had fun playing with different powders and loads, but I can't say that the improvement over a classic Unique load was enough to worry about.  This isn't a benchrest cartridge or rifle.  I mainly just go up against the Campbell's or DelMonte gangs when they get a little rowdy.

Griff

PS: I have always just used standard large pistol primers, which have worked just fine for me.

[Im2bent]

So I am looking on Missouri bullet companys site and they have what they call a cowboy #5 which is a 200gn rnfp with a brinell of 12. These have a lube groove with lube. They have the same thing in a coated bullet which is red in color and while it has grooves there is no lube from what I am seeing. What gives? Any recommendations for a bullet from these guys?

[Ranch 13]

 Can't help with the Missouri Bullets, but these from Cheyast work well in my rifle and handguns with smokeless and black.
https://www.cheycastbullets.com/Black-Powder-44cal-RNFP-200gr--100-Count-Box_p_168.html

[Baltimore Ed]

Polymer coated bullets don't use lube as the hard polymer protects the bore from the lead and the bullet from the hot gas of the burning powder. Polymer also allows bullets to be softer lead. Plain hard lead alloy bullets must have hard lube in their grooves. If pushed fast a gas check helps protect the bullet from the hot gas. Faster still and a half or full jacket is needed to protect the lead and bore. And if you decide to try black powder a soft lube is needed to keep fouling soft. Have I confused you enough? I like polymer coated and have coated my own in the past but use either type of lead projectiles for cas loads.

[bear tooth billy]

I have a Henry, 66, and relined original 73. I almost always use black or sub now
but when I load smokeless, I use unique, a lb. will go a long ways. I use a 200 gr
flat nose bullet, .429". Powder amount, please go off of a reliable powder co. info.
not somebody on the internet. No offense to anyone here. Also remember you are
loading a tubular magazine, so be sure to use a flat pointed bullet.



                                     BTB

[Im2bent]

So I spoke to Missouri Bullets and they advised that their Brinell 12 lead bullets are good for 900fps. The coated brinell 12 are good for 1100 fps. Since i want to get to 1200-1250fps he recommended the brinell 18 bullets coated. These bullets are marketed as their stalker line in the 44 mag bullet section.  Baltimore Ed is absolutely correct the coating takes the place of lube so I ordered 500 to start with. Once again thank you all for your help and remember to keep your powder dry.

[David Battersby]

So I spoke to Missouri Bullets and they advised that their Brinell 12 lead bullets are good for 900fps. The coated Brinell 12 are good for 1100 fps. Since i want to get to 1200-1250fps he recommended the Brinell 18 bullets coated.

?

In my Uberti 1873 chambered in 44-40 I shoot the following smokeless load.  Starline brass, Accurate Molds 43-220cc cast with 30-1 alloy, NRA 50/50 Lube from White Label Lube, CCI#350 Primer and 25.3 grains of Reloader 7. This load chronographs at 1350fps. I can shoot this load all day with zero leading.    30-1 alloy has a Brinell hardness of 9 !  Since you are going with coated bullets you will most likely be okay.  In my limited experience leading in the bore has always been because of the lube and or alloy being too hard.

[Im2bent]

So I spoke to Missouri Bullets and they advised that their Brinell 12 lead bullets are good for 900fps. The coated Brinell 12 are good for 1100 fps. Since i want to get to 1200-1250fps he recommended the Brinell 18 bullets coated.

?

In my Uberti 1873 chambered in 44-40 I shoot the following smokeless load.  Starline brass, Accurate Molds 43-220cc cast with 30-1 alloy, NRA 50/50 Lube from White Label Lube, CCI#350 Primer and 25.3 grains of Reloader 7. This load chronographs at 1350fps. I can shoot this load all day with zero leading.    30-1 alloy has a Brinell hardness of 9 !  Since you are going with coated bullets you will most likely be okay.  In my limited experience leading in the bore has always been because of the lube and or alloy being too hard.

Well that is what they told me and since they are the manufacturer I assumed they know their product, so I went with their recommendation. Not sure why a too hard alloy would cause leading?

[Abilene]

I am far from being a ballistician.  My understanding is that at lower velocities and lower pressures (think CAS), soft bullets are more likely to bump up to fill the rifling.  Harder bullets don't bump up at the lower pressures so hot gasses get past the sides of the bullet and melt some into the bore. 

[Im2bent]

So I will keep these closer to 1300 than 1100 and keep an eye on the leading situation. Will of course keep an eye on the brass for signs of pressure but that brings up a point. I doubt that at 1300 I would see signs of high pressure but that does not mean the 1873 will like it so max 1250 should be good? thank you all for the replies.