American Pioneer powder

Froogal · December 07, 2021, 12:41:42 PM

Not sure if this question should be here or in The Dark Arts.

I have a 1 pound jug of the APP powder in 3F. Since I already have it, I may as well load up some .45 Colts and see what happens, but I was reading that they recommend using NO lube. ALL of my projectiles are already lubed with SPG. Is this going to be a problem?

Yes, I know it is not true black powder, but is a substitute.

Abilene · December 07, 2021, 12:57:58 PM

Lubed or unlubed bullets is no problemo.

I actually loaded some APP in .38's recently from a can that I had opened in 2013 as I had a couple of annual matches coming up and had not had time to relube bullets with BP lube. They smoked fine, but I have since purchased lubed bullets from Springfield Slim so I can get back to real BP in the rifle for that flame and authentic smell.

wildman1 · December 07, 2021, 03:58:39 PM

Techs at the factory told me NO lube.
wM1

AntiqueSledMan · December 08, 2021, 04:25:50 AM

Hello Froogal,

I'm loading Black MZ,
which was made by Pioneer Powder with dry bullets.
No issues encouontered.

AntiqueSledMan.

Froogal · December 08, 2021, 07:53:13 AM

Sounds like I may need to cast some more bullets and NOT lube them.

Coffinmaker · December 08, 2021, 08:26:31 AM

Gentelmen (Using the term loosely)

Allow me to impose. As a long term user of APP, I have NEWS. Well, information, not necessarily new.

Yes, APP is a SUB. The flame and "authentic smell" are not necessarily all they are cracked up to be (that should start a fight). APP may be used with ANY bullet, coated bullets, lubed bullets, BP Lubed bullets, BARE bullets. No matter. APP makes it's own "lube" and APP residue is NOT cumulative. Each round fired takes the residue from the previous round with it. Makes it super easy to clean up.

As a case in point, I don't have any "bare" bullets. I just order bullets from whomever has the bullet I want in stock ready to ship. Any lube is just fine. Most of my current stock are of the "Crayon" lube variety for smokeless (gag) but APP doesn't care. They shoot just fine.

Considering the ease of cleanup, no requirement for lube (ANY LUBE) I probably won't be bothered to return to BP. Just Sooooooo much easier. And yes ... I am Lazy. Old Guys get to be lazy.

Remember: People are still Hazardous to yer Health

PS: Almost forgot to mention; the foregoing is also applicable to Cap Guns

Froogal · December 08, 2021, 09:29:11 AM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on December 08, 2021, 08:26:31 AM
Gentelmen (Using the term loosely)

Allow me to impose. As a long term user of APP, I have NEWS. Well, information, not necessarily new.

Yes, APP is a SUB. The flame and "authentic smell" are not necessarily all they are cracked up to be (that should start a fight). APP may be used with ANY bullet, coated bullets, lubed bullets, BP Lubed bullets, BARE bullets. No matter. APP makes it's own "lube" and APP residue is NOT cumulative. Each round fired takes the residue from the previous round with it. Makes it super easy to clean up.

As a case in point, I don't have any "bare" bullets. I just order bullets from whomever has the bullet I want in stock ready to ship. Any lube is just fine. Most of my current stock are of the "Crayon" lube variety for smokeless (gag) but APP doesn't care. They shoot just fine.

Considering the ease of cleanup, no requirement for lube (ANY LUBE) I probably won't be bothered to return to BP. Just Sooooooo much easier. And yes ... I am Lazy. Old Guys get to be lazy.

Remember: People are still Hazardous to yer Health

PS: Almost forgot to mention; the foregoing is also applicable to Cap Guns

Thank you immensely for that information. Now I know what I will be doing next in the reloading room. Although I probably should not do any actual test firing until after the neighbor moves his cows out.

bear tooth billy · December 08, 2021, 10:04:20 AM

I usually use boughten hard lube bullets with APP, and SPG with real black.
Both work fine with APP,

BTB

River City John · December 08, 2021, 11:05:52 AM

That is one of the nice advantages about APP.

Buy your bullets where available, or cast, whatever you can. They all shoot fine.

Dave T · December 08, 2021, 08:45:48 PM

APP's kissing and now deceased cousin, Black M-Z, is the only thing that will work in my 45 S&W (incorrectly labled 45 Schofield by Star-Line) rounds when fired through the S&W Model 2000 Schofield. If I don't sell it first I will have to find a source of APP when the last of the Black M-Z is gone.

Oh, and in my experience Big-Lube bullets still work better than cast bullets with the hard blue lube, at least in the finicky 2000 Schofield.

Dave

Coffinmaker · December 09, 2021, 08:41:57 AM

Dave T

Dave, all is not lost. Black MZ is still available (sort of). The kind folks at APP are supplying Black MZ, re-labeled for Shooters World. Same Pizza, New Name. I should think you can avail yourself of "The Better Butter" from Shooters World.

At least I think it's "Shooters World." My memory is like that of a Gnat.

Have Fun Out There but remember: People are Still Hazardous to yer Health

Froogal · December 10, 2021, 12:54:31 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on December 09, 2021, 08:41:57 AM
Dave T

Dave, all is not lost. Black MZ is still available (sort of). The kind folks at APP are supplying Black MZ, re-labeled for Shooters World. Same Pizza, New Name. I should think you can avail yourself of "The Better Butter" from Shooters World.

At least I think it's "Shooters World." My memory is like that of a Gnat.

Have Fun Out There but remember: People are Still Hazardous to yer Health

Graf and Sons have a listing for the Shooters World BLACK. Stated that it is made by American Pioneer. I did some digging and found the load data to be the same as for the APP. Sadly though, it is out of stock, just like everywhere else.

Coffinmaker · December 11, 2021, 09:41:30 AM

Froogal

Skip Graff & Sons for now. The prime distributor/dealer for APP goodies is "Bullets by Scarlett. She normally has a goodly supply of APP "On Hand". Suggest give her an eMail or a Call. DO NOT rely on web sites for status. Just too fluid.

Play Safe Out There

Froogal · December 11, 2021, 03:05:07 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on December 11, 2021, 09:41:30 AM
Froogal

Skip Graff & Sons for now. The prime distributor/dealer for APP goodies is "Bullets by Scarlett. She normally has a goodly supply of APP "On Hand". Suggest give her an eMail or a Call. DO NOT rely on web sites for status. Just too fluid.

Play Safe Out There

Thank you!! I did not even know about "Bullets by Scarlett", but now I do, and I have the website bookmarked.

DocAltman · February 06, 2022, 07:48:54 PM

Quote from: Froogal on December 11, 2021, 03:05:07 PM
Thank you!! I did not even know about "Bullets by Scarlett", but now I do, and I have the website bookmarked.

Scarlett is wonderful to deal with! She (and her husband, too) is a class act!

Coffinmaker · February 07, 2022, 07:40:59 AM

TA DA

Pettifogger · February 07, 2022, 11:04:18 AM

You can get APP direct from the manufacturer. I have only bought direct for years. Here is an email I got from APP a couple of days ago.

If you or anyone you know is running low on American Pioneer Powder, Save approximately 10% on American Pioneer Powder by ordering now. This is between a $25-30 savings per case. We are doing our best to only pass along a portion of the price increases we received from our chemical and packaging suppliers; however, their prices keep going up and availability is getting more limited. The cost of the orders we have placed this year for chemicals and packaging is higher than ever. Effective March 1, 2022, we will have to increase our prices as a result of the price increases we have received.

Order now to get the lowest price and to ensure your supply of American Pioneer Powder when you need it. Please order via email or telephone – Tel. # 954-415-8229.

Best Regards,

Brett