Cleaning BP guns

wildman1 · October 22, 2021, 05:52:57 AM

Regarding the use of hot vs. boiling hot water for cleaning BP fouled guns. We cleaned our muzzle loaders with hot water and soap and AFTER they were cleaned we would flush them with boiling hot water. They would evaporate any water left around the breech plug and the rifle would be DRY in a matter of seconds. So no matter what you use to clean it a good flush with very hot water will completely dry it after it is cleaned.
wM1

Gabriel Law · October 22, 2021, 01:04:31 PM

Water at room temperature cleans black powder fouling better than anything, including hot water. Allowing the heat from the very hot water to dry your steel will induce flash rusting, particularly in the bore which has no protection from finish or case hardening. Flash rust is iron cancer. It gets worse and worse until the bore is ruined. There are going to be subscribers who will say I'm full of hooey - they've been doing it that way since.....And if that way suits you, go ahead - it's your rifle/pistol/shotgun. But I've seen some fine guns destroyed by their owners flushing with very hot water.
Use water that is comfortable to your skin. Dry the metal after cleaning with towels and patches - the bore with a tight fitting jag and patches. Oil with a water displacing fluid like WD 40 for short term - for long term storage, use a rust preventative oil.
Remove the oil prior to shooting.
This comes from a geezer who has been shooting black powder for over fifty years.

greyhawk · October 23, 2021, 01:31:20 AM

Quote from: Gabriel Law on October 22, 2021, 01:04:31 PM
Water at room temperature cleans black powder fouling better than anything, including hot water. Allowing the heat from the very hot water to dry your steel will induce flash rusting, particularly in the bore which has no protection from finish or case hardening. Flash rust is iron cancer. It gets worse and worse until the bore is ruined. There are going to be subscribers who will say I'm full of hooey - they've been doing it that way since.....And if that way suits you, go ahead - it's your rifle/pistol/shotgun. But I've seen some fine guns destroyed by their owners flushing with very hot water.
Use water that is comfortable to your skin. Dry the metal after cleaning with towels and patches - the bore with a tight fitting jag and patches. Oil with a water displacing fluid like WD 40 for short term - for long term storage, use a rust preventative oil.
Remove the oil prior to shooting.
This comes from a geezer who has been shooting black powder for over fifty years.

I agree with the geezer - room temperature is best - us geezers gotta stick together -

Coffinmaker · October 23, 2021, 07:04:29 AM

YEPPER

PLUS ONE (or TWO) for the other TWO Geezers

People are Hazardous to yer Health
Avoid Them

PS: Does that make us the "Three Musket Tears??"

wildman1 · October 23, 2021, 07:58:13 AM

I have seen ML breech plugs rust and rusted from using room temp water then dried with patches etc and then lubed with whatever lube you prefer. You will NOT get all the moisture out of the breech plug area in a muzzle loader with normal dry patch wiping and then lubing.
wM1

Cliff Fendley · October 25, 2021, 10:42:50 AM

Quote from: Gabriel Law on October 22, 2021, 01:04:31 PM
Water at room temperature cleans black powder fouling better than anything, including hot water. Allowing the heat from the very hot water to dry your steel will induce flash rusting, particularly in the bore which has no protection from finish or case hardening. Flash rust is iron cancer. It gets worse and worse until the bore is ruined. There are going to be subscribers who will say I'm full of hooey - they've been doing it that way since.....And if that way suits you, go ahead - it's your rifle/pistol/shotgun. But I've seen some fine guns destroyed by their owners flushing with very hot water.
Use water that is comfortable to your skin. Dry the metal after cleaning with towels and patches - the bore with a tight fitting jag and patches. Oil with a water displacing fluid like WD 40 for short term - for long term storage, use a rust preventative oil.
Remove the oil prior to shooting.
This comes from a geezer who has been shooting black powder for over fifty years.

I agree with everything except the wd-40. I'm a firm believer in Ballistol, displaces water and is very good rust preventive oil on its own.

Froogal · October 25, 2021, 03:12:04 PM

I'll second the Ballistol. Squirt the stuff down into the bore, let it set for a minute or two, flush out with hot water from the tap, and follow up with a couple passes of a bore snake. Works on both black and smokeless.

greyhawk · October 25, 2021, 09:42:27 PM

Quote from: wildman1 on October 23, 2021, 07:58:13 AM
I have seen ML breech plugs rust and rusted from using room temp water then dried with patches etc and then lubed with whatever lube you prefer. You will NOT get all the moisture out of the breech plug area in a muzzle loader with normal dry patch wiping and then lubing.
wM1

you will not flash rust your bore either though !
I dry my muzzies out with the air compressor
then a dose of WD40 and set it someplace warm for a bit (out in the sun, or by the fire during winter) when its proper dry some oil and back in the rack
I'll pass on hot water - the cure is worse than the disease I reckon ...............(theres a lot of that going round of late)

Dave T · October 26, 2021, 05:54:15 PM

I went shooting yesterday, a rare treat for me these days, and fired 4 black powder cartridge handguns and a rifle. Had close to 100 rounds of dirty brass when I was done. Didn't get to them until about 1830 hrs or so last evening and was done with the guns by 2000 hrs. Had I taken time to boil water for each gun, and then tried not to burn myself on hot metal during the boiling water treatment, it would have taken at least another hour.

I just used tap water with a dash of Simple Green (too make the water wetter) and scrub with a soft bristle round brush or a tooth brush for the corners. I wipe everything dry with an absorbent cotton rag, then run over everything with a patch of Ballistol. Haven't had a gun rust or corrode in all the year since I came back to BP cartridge. YMMV

Dave

PS: The dirty brass gets scrubbed with soapy water then dropped in a bucket of clean water. When done I dump the brass into a colander to drain off the water. A couple of shakes to get rid of the excess then I spread the brass out to dry on an old towel. When it's dry, into the vibratory tumbler for how ever many hours it takes.

Bunk Stagnerg · October 26, 2021, 08:54:34 PM

Since my range is in my back yard (hate me?) I shoot real Gunpowder in something almost every day and have a lot of cleaning both rifles and hand guns.
No boiling water, no esoteric concoctions just room temp (75 degree) moose milk 1:10. Cleans quickly with minimum mess and since it is made with distilled water they dry with a nice protective coat of oil.
Every one of my guns treated this way was in storage for over a year and when they came out of storage there was no a speck of rust, corrosion or any thing on any of them.
Easy simple and foolproof.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

wildman1 · October 27, 2021, 07:39:40 AM

NMLRA and the folks that made my muzzleloaders both say the proper way to clean them is with very hot water. I've shot percussion and flintlock rifles for many years and all the folks I shoot with do the same.
wM1

Coffinmaker · October 27, 2021, 08:35:26 AM

Ha

I would like to observe . . . . Just because a dozen or two people subscribe to the same Old Wives Tale, doesn't make it a real fact. Common, 20 people run head on into a bridge abutment doesn't make it a great idea

Of course I also don't subscribe to Ballistol either. Just don't like the stuff. Lubricating is done with OIL. In this instance, non petroleum products are best.

Play Safe out There

greyhawk · October 27, 2021, 04:40:12 PM

humph
I've read the negative stuff about WD40 (here and other forums) for ages ----wonder whats that about ? By negative I mean blokes actually telling its bad for your guns not just that it dont work as well as other thinks. Builds up a layer of crud in the bore ? all sorts of fairy stories. I been usin the stuff for years without any sign of a problem - mainly cuz there is always a can of it around someplace and I am lazy I guess.

Never seen ballistol up close but told it stinks pretty bad so not really interested in that.

Lucky we live in a gun friendly climate (weather wise - not politically!!!)- think Arizona / New Mexico - dry - hot - low humidity so keeping rust at bay is easy. All that said I reckon you are a mug if you trust your guns in storage for more than a couple or three months without attention - Too late afterwards!!!

Abilene · October 27, 2021, 10:38:33 PM

Greyhawk, Ballistol smells like VERY strong licorice. It actually takes my breath away. But I still use it - just make sure I have a fan blowing for ventilation if indoors!

Froogal · October 28, 2021, 08:37:10 AM

Quote from: Abilene on October 27, 2021, 10:38:33 PM
Greyhawk, Ballistol smells like VERY strong licorice. It actually takes my breath away. But I still use it - just make sure I have a fan blowing for ventilation if indoors!

I agree 100%. I also have found that a fan is needed.

DeaconKC · October 28, 2021, 01:41:50 PM

WD40 is an excellent product when used for what it is designed to do. However it has several drawbacks around guns and especially ammo. It is a penetrating water displacer and will kill primers, even on factory ammo. It is not an oil and will build up a very tough to remove varnish inside of guns.

Cliff Fendley · October 28, 2021, 07:50:45 PM

Quote from: DeaconKC on October 28, 2021, 01:41:50 PM
WD40 is an excellent product when used for what it is designed to do. However it has several drawbacks around guns and especially ammo. It is a penetrating water displacer and will kill primers, even on factory ammo. It is not an oil and will build up a very tough to remove varnish inside of guns.

Learned that the hard way when I was a kid. Literally glued a couple double barrel shotguns together that never got shot much. Had to tear them down to get all the nasty varnish out.

greyhawk · October 30, 2021, 10:00:19 PM

Quote from: DeaconKC on October 28, 2021, 01:41:50 PM
WD40 is an excellent product when used for what it is designed to do. However it has several drawbacks around guns and especially ammo. It is a penetrating water displacer and will kill primers, even on factory ammo. It is not an oil and will build up a very tough to remove varnish inside of guns.

greyhawk · October 30, 2021, 10:09:37 PM

Quote from: DeaconKC on October 28, 2021, 01:41:50 PM
WD40 is an excellent product when used for what it is designed to do. However it has several drawbacks around guns and especially ammo. It is a penetrating water displacer and will kill primers, even on factory ammo.

ok that gets my attention - I been using it to clean excess boolit lube of loaded ammo - a little bit on a piece of flannelette which I always followed with dry rag to remove any leftover wd40 - have not had an issue to date, but this part of the operation might get a little more care justincase.

It is not an oil and will build up a very tough to remove varnish inside of guns.
This bit I am skeptic of because I have been using the stuff for ages without incident - usually run a lightly oiled patch down bore to finish a clean and oil in the innards of course - I wonder does the varnish thing have to do with smokeless powder residue - I dont contaminate my best guns with that stuff ..........

greyhawk · October 30, 2021, 10:17:51 PM

Quote from: Abilene on October 27, 2021, 10:38:33 PM
Greyhawk, Ballistol smells like VERY strong licorice. It actually takes my breath away. But I still use it - just make sure I have a fan blowing for ventilation if indoors!

licorice would be ok - story I heard was more like somethin dead was in there ? have smelled strange things at the range on occasion but never seen ballistol up close. use moosemilk on patches since way back - thats good stuff .