Armi Sport Magazine Tube issue

[Injun Ryder]

I came across a situation that a friend of a fellow shooter is having. He is unable to chamber a cartridge in his Armi Sport 45 Schofield Spencer. After a few hours tinkering with the Spencer, including trying various OAL's, I think we found the problem. However, a solution still needs to be found.

The problem is the magazine tube. From the parts lists that we have (Armi Sport and Chiappa), it is not the correct one. When I put in the magazine tube from my 44 Russian (which by the way, from the parts list is the same for the 45 Schofield), the 45 Schofield Spencer would lever and feed. Now the solution would be to get the correct magazine tube but, per Taylors, they are not available. We might be able to modify the magazine tube that is in the 45 Schofield Spencer. I will discuss some ideas with a local gunsmith as soon as I can.

Some details:

The magazine tube in the 45 Schofield Spencer is 14 inches long with an aluminum follower. A round will not feed with this magazine tube fully installed. (This magazine looks like the one in the parts schematic for the 45 Colt / 44-40 Spencer).

It is also sleeved:

The 44 Russian magazine tube is 13 1/4 inches long with a different style follower with a rubber tip. Its overall length is slightly longer than the magazine tube currently in the 45 Schofield.

Th 44 Russian magazine tube is not sleeved and has a taper at the end.

Apparently, the magazine tube in the 45 Schofield Spencer constrains the cartridge too much at the receiver and it cannot align to be placed properly in the lower block to be chambered.

We pulled the 45 Schofield magazine tube out about an inch which would remove the constraint on the cartridge and the Spencer would lever so we feel that this proves that the constraint is the problem.

Anyone have any suggestions? (Or maybe have an extra 44 Russian / 45 Schofield magazine tube laying around?)

There is more information and pictures on the SASS wire:
https://forums.sassnet.com/index.php?/topic/322343-looking-for-a-gunsmith-to-do-an-action-job-on-an-armi-spencer-carbine/

[vandiemenduck]

Hello Injun Ryder,

I know it has been a while since you posted this but I was not an Armi Sport Spencer owner at that time so only noted your post recently. Unfortunately I cannot recommend a gunsmith as I know of none with Spencer experience and also I am in Australia which you probably are not.

I recently acquired the 44 Russian Armi Sport Spencer and I have not fired it yet but finally procured some hard-to-find 44 Russian brass and have loaded some dummy cartridges to understand the quirks and made some observations which may or may not be helpful to you but hopefully they are of some help.

My sample is early manufacture M0623 so probably the earliest pattern (2001?) but there are no letter years evident. Build quality and finish are excellent. The Magazine tube is just as you described with a long inside taper near the receiver end.

I found when inserting 7 cartridges (action closed always), the first would cant upwards towards the front and the bolt was preventing from closing when moderate force was applied. It may have closed but I was not prepared to use excessive force. By withdrawing the magazine sufficient to remove spring pressure then replacing it, the cartridge nose would drop and feed and all subsequent cartridges would feed.

It is my assumption that the projectile of the initial cartridge is jammed against the overhead cartridge guide. This appears to happen consistently after many repetitions, however, if I hold the rifle upside down when sliding in the cartridges and then the magazine, once the action is opened, the first cartridge is not canted upwards towards the front and all 7 feed smoothly.

I am a collector of old arms and another of my collector friends had an original Spencer many years ago with a number of original cartridges. He coincidentally fed some live cartridges through his Spencer and
also observed that loading the rifle upside down it would jam up 1 time in 20 magazines when loaded upside down but 1 time in 5 when loaded upright. In each case the solution was the same as yours, just release and reinsert the magazine. We know there were apparently many versions of the original rifle and the Armi Sport was a copy of just one but it seems to have inherited some quirks for its forbear or at least mine did.

I will try the rifle at the range next month and let you know if you are interested how that goes. The 44 Russian is rather a short cartridge as is the 45 Scofield and I notice that Armi Sport (AKA Chiappa) no longer not make either of those cartridges but they do make the 45 Long Colt and based on my observations I feel a longer cartridge would likely be more reliable as it could not cant so a possible improvement might be to rechamber the 44 Russian into to a 44 S&W Special being the identical cartridge in all respects except having the aprox. overall length as the 45 Long Colt. I will not rush into this as it cannot be reversed but it is just food for thought.

Your friend's problem sounds different unfortunately but hopefully you can get parts. I was able to get new extractors recently as the rifle arrived with one distressed extractor and one broken. I suspect that the first owner may have loaded single cartridges in front of the extractors and then slammed bolt forwards. My dealer is excellent and replaced them at no cost but I got an extra set in case they were a weakness. I don't think they are especially weak but could easily be broken by poor use that disciplined practice would avoid.

I hope you have a happy and safe new year.

Kindest Regards

Mike Graham