Trapdoor followed me home

[DeaconKC]

Yup, a Trapdoor followed me home. .45-70 but I think the front sight has been messed with. Trying to figure out the specifics. I don't load BP so I am either gonna have to learn how to, or find a safe smokeless load for it.

[DeaconKC]

Front sight pic

[Black River Smith]

Deacon,

I could be totally wrong or incorrect with this following statement and there is no insulting meant by it but since you mentioned the 'funny' front sight.  I think that 'carbine' is and 'alteration' from a full length infantry Trapdoor.  The stock nose profile just does not seem right and the overall barrel length seems too short even for the carbine.

The other noticeable variation is the shoulder strap swivel on the front of the trigger guard.  Carbines did not normally have swivels, at all. They had a saddle ring and bar devise on the leftside.  Or they may have a swivel on the front stock/barrel band.

Look at this Bing link I pulled up to double check my comments.  https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=trapdoor+springfield+carbine&form=HDRSC2&first=1&tsc=ImageBasicHover


Still a cool find and nice working action on these rifles.


PS -- I have owned a full length rifle for over 30yrs and studied some of the variations between the years of production but not an expert at all.

PSS --  Learn to use blackpowder or subs.  These are not the strongest actions even for light smokeless loads.  I did shoot about 10 rounds through mine but thought better of it after that.  No ill effects with those few but not something I wanted to continue to do.

[DeaconKC]

BR Smith, thank you, this is exactly the info I needed. I made the trade because I was into the other gun really right, so I knew I would not be hurt on this as a shooter for CAS long range, even if I have to put a new front sight on it. This way no guilt over messing with an unmolested gun's value. I will look into the subs or BP, just need to find dies or maybe even an old Lee Loader!

[wildman1]

If yer lookin to shoot LR with that TD try to keep yer velocity about 1150-1160 fps average. Some folks shoot smokiless in their TDs I would not. But then I shoot BP in my 1911. wM1

[Drydock]

Yep, cut down rifle.  BUt  those can be a lot of fun! 

[Pitspitr]

Hi Deacon

For smokeless try 13.5 gr Trailboss under a 405 sized .460 But I really recommend using BP and get this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Loading-cartridges-original-Springfield-carbine/dp/157579019X
Bring it to a muster and you can have great fun with it! 

[Professor Marvel]

these folks DO NOT recommend Trail Boss in large cases like the 45-70:

great discussion over here
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?153792-Loads-for-old-trapdoor-Springfield

note this snip:
------------------
That Trail Boss load to 3031, the same 405 grain cast bullet that Trail Boss pushes to only
1007 FPS at 25,600 CUP will run 1706 FPS at only 21,100 CUP with 3031! The MINIMUM 3031 load
using that bullet is going 1597 FPS at only 17,300 CUP! That's 590 FPS more velocity at 8,300
CUP LESS pressure than the same bullet with Trail Boss!
------------------

a giant thread presided over by Larry Gibson
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?190999-My-Trapdoor-Loads-Technique-and-Equipment

someone asking the same q's
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?298164-Smokeless-equivalent-load-for-a-Trapdoor

over here Frank likes Unique
https://www.assra.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1316830183


and finally over here we have a long thread, famous for showing the pressure curves of
certain powders, along with some excellent discussions
https://levergunscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?t=27410

I will now run and hide...

[DeaconKC]

I truly do appreciate the help here. I have decided I will wait and round up some Jenuwine Holy Black to load this beast. If it were a modern gun, I would not be as concerned, but this one will get what it was designed for. I did find a Lee Loader for it too!

[Mogorilla]

I shot 45-70 at Muster this year, I used a 405 grain bullet over a wad and card (got those from track of the wolf) with 60 grains of ffg Black Powder.    I shot all day, actually placed 3rd (I think) and clean up was a breeze!   I put balistol down the barrel, and ran a bore snake through three times, wiped it down and repeated.  All clean.

[Drydock]

I shot my shorty TD at the Muster this year as well.  This bullet http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=46-405C  over a Walters .030 card wad and 60 grains OE FFG.  50/50 beeswax/olive oil lube and a WLR primer.  Same as MOGO,  shot all day, poured a cup of water down the barrel, 2 dry patchs, 2 Ballistol patchs, done.

https://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php?topic=62625.0  They tell me it makes impressive fireballs.

[DeaconKC]

Have any of you used Bullets by Scarlett's BP bullets?

[Mogorilla]

I have not.   I have used a mix of Missouri Bullet (lube was my own, like Drydock's ~50/50 beeswax and olive oil, carefully mixed in the microwave) and Montana Precision Swagging bullets, they come with their own blackpowder lube.  Both worked well.   

[Major 2]

Pandemic times I suppose 

Bullets by Scarlett
Unable to place an order ... She is backlogged , so I moved on

I did place a order with Penn Bullets ( and got my first order )
but my second order placed in Late Jan  2021 , still has not delivered    ( course he has not charged me either )

Springfield Slim @ Whyte Leather Works has been consistent and reliable.

So has Missouri Bullet & Bear Creek Bullets 

[Niederlander]

I use Trail Boss in the .45-70, and .50-70, all the time.  One of the ballistics guys from the factory told me how to figure the charge.  Works great!