Loading BP with a Dillon 650

[Twelve Bore]

Looking for info on modifying my Dillon measure for loading BP. I have read posts that suggest using the Black Dawge anti static kit, but as sold by Powder Inc and Buffalo arms, I see no mention that it makes the Dillon measure safe to use with black powder. Powder Inc even has the Dillon warning against using black powder posted under the ad?
I am using my Lee 1000 and loading APP with it, but would like to switch to BP and use my D650.

Adios, Twelve Bore 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy Twelve Bore!

You do this at your own risk:  Dillon says that under no conditions (my emphasis) should you load BP thru one of their powder measures; either modified or un-modified.

You have a couple of options.  First, you can buy a set of Lee powder dippers (everyone should have a set, in my opinion) and still use the Dillon expander/measure set-up with no powder and dip your charge into the case by hand.  Yes, it slows you down a lot, but it's a SAFE alternative.  Second, you can try and find some aluminum or copper tubing that will substitute for the plastic hopper of the powder measure. 

They (Dillon) are covering their bases, lawyer style, as well as protecting their warranty.  I won't try and debate whether it's safe or not or whether static electricity can set off BP.  I made my own decision and I stand by it, but I won't go into it here.  Suffice to say, MANY Dillon owners load BP using as-is or modified powder measures.

Again, you do this at your own risk.  ( Did you like the way I tap-danced all around the issue? )

Merry Christmas !!!

[Cactus Cris]

Gonna do the same "dance"  I use a 650 just as it comes from the store to load BP 44/40.  Only difference is the compression die in station 3, and a 44mag Dillon bullet seater, rest is Redding and Dillon.  Works for me so far.  Ain't worried about static spark.   Ain't gonna tell anybody to do this.  They is on their own.

[Dick Dastardly]

I've loaded thousands or rounds of fine BP ammo with my LEE Pro 1000.  Didn't change anything.  LEE don't like it, but I do.  I won't tell you it's safe, only that it ain't gone boom on me yet.

Now, as for plastic and BP.  How many times have I seen pards want to avoid plastic in contact with Holy Black use LEE dippers to measure out their powder?  THEM DIPPERS ARE ALL MADE OUT OF PLASTIC!

My first rule for loadin' Genuine Powder is NO SMOKING!.  Come to think of it, that's my second rule too.

Keep your area clean, only keep what powder you need for the immediate work at hand in the area.  Don't booze and load.

Dillon, LEE, Redding, RCBS, LYMAN and all the others ain't goin' to tell you it's ok to load BP with their equipment.  Sometimes you got to figger things out for yourself.  Once and a while in life you actually have to take a risk.  The trick is to stack the deck in your favor.  This advice from an ol Riverboat Gambler named. . . .

Dick (who makes his own odds) Dastardly

[Twelve Bore]

My plan is to ground the press, have a brass charge bar made and replace the powder hopper with aluminum, brass or copper. My take is that you use metal instead of plastic because the metal is passive, correct? Called Dillon, the customer service rep I talked to suggested using a Lyman BP measure and told me that Dillon has the parts to convert the press for its use.

[El Paso Pete]

This should be a stickie, article on BP and static electricity.

http://www.brimstonepistoleros.com/Articles/wardlaw.htm

[Cuts Crooked]

You are right El Paso, I will make it so!

[Grizzle Bear]

I've been doing this for years now, with nary a problem.  First time you pour the powder hopper full of black powder, it will get an inner coating of graphite.  So no more worry about any possible static.
 
I do have one powder measure for black, and another one for smokeless.

To load .45-70's with black powder, I did have to make a new slider for the powder measure.  Used a piece of acrylic plastic.

All these manufactuers ave fallen for the "Black Powder is an Explosive!" crap that BATFE puts out.

You're safer loading black powder in a Dillon, than you are pouring gasoline in your lawn mower.

Grizzle Bear

[Dick Dastardly]

Let's see, it's like this. . . .  Don't smoke and load.  Don't smoke in the loading room.  No open flames.  No hot surfaces.

Now, as for grounding stuff. . .  If it's for eleminating sparks it can make things worse.  Sparks jump when there's a difference in potential.  So, if the press is well grounded, and yer not, you may be carrying quite a charge.  When ya touches the press a spark cud jump.  To eliminate any difference in potential I reccommend runnin' a braded copper conductor from yer skin to the press.  After a while this will get annoying and you will do away with it.

Take a look at El Paso Pete's post and click on the URL link.  You will learn about sparks.  Then, after careful consideration, consider how much hype is being sold to keep you from enjoying your Dillon press.

I think the analogy made by Griz about being safer than puttin' gas in yer mower is a good one.

DD-DLoS

[Twelve Bore]

Thanks for all the info. Always wondered why nobody seemed to worry about smokeless powder igniting from static discharge but all the talk is about BP, makes a person cautious! Think I will still change the plastic hopper to metal.
Attached a couple of pictures of me shooting with APP loads. Hope to be converted to load BP by springtime. They did'nt have no APP or that smokeless stuff in 1880.

[gmatov]

Here's a good one fer ya'.

A spark will not jump unless it is going to ground. A battery will not discharge, unless the + and - are connected. There is no circuit made unless you HAVE a ground.. If you ground your press, you have just closed the circuit. Now, a spark WILL jump.
Now, the man referrefd to above, a scientific type, says X volts WILL NOT detonate BP nor any of the subs, just might be worth listening to.

You can do as you will, but I don't think there is a chance in hell that you are gonna blow yourself up if you do NOT run a ground wire from your press to the ground of the nearest receptacle.

DD nor anyone else withstanding. You might even be giving advice that is detrimental. Mebbe a KA-BOOM is due in your scenario.

Cheers,

George

Static electricity can give you a sharp little snap when you kiss your daughters, but it is not enough to detonate BP nor the sub.. I get that with my grand-daughter all the time. Have learned to tap her on the shoulder, and my kids also, to discharge the stacic before a goodnight kiss. That little "snap" when you give a grand-daughter a kiss is a liittle offputting.

[Twelve Bore]

"DD nor anyone else withstanding. You might even be giving advice that is detrimental. Mebbe a KA-BOOM is due in your scenario."

What? I don't get that one!

As I said ,guess the only thing I will change is the powder hopper from plastic to metal. May not even do that now.

Had I gone with the grounding idea, I would have worn an ESD bracelet and grounded myself as well as the press.

Thanks again, Twelve Bore

[Lou Graham]

Twelve Bore,
I load real BP on a Dillon 650.

DD is right, as are the other pards.  No open flame heater or anything that gets hot in the room.  Pay attention to what you are doing, not the phone, music or conversations.

Get a tiny light (I use a bore light) and tape it to the Dillon, angle it so you can see real easy as the case comes around to seat the boolit that the powder is in there at the proper level.  Good light is very helpful when loading BP.  Watch for spills on the plate, it will gum up the works and you have to take everything apart and clean up the mess.  Since BP cases are filled higher than smokeless, it is easy to have some "bump" out as you work the handle up and back.  Go slow and smooth --  don't try to keep the pace of loading smokeless, it takes longer in the end 'cause of the delay when the plate gets too much powder worked into it.  You can do 200 or 250 an hour.    My left hand gets gooey fingers from the lube as I seat 100's of boolits.  Put boolits in the fridge for a couple of hours before you are ready to load.  Keeps things tidy.  The lube seems to migrate into everything.  I have a damp rag and paper towels on stand by to use to wipe my hands before I refill the primer tube or fetch more boolits or refill the case feeder.

When you are done, be sure and empty the measure and clean it.  Clean up the crumbs from your workspace with a damp cloth.  Go back over it a second time.  Sweep the floor, too.  Check pants cuffs and your shoes.  Don't track it into the house, especially if you have carpet.

I hope this helps.

[Williewheelgun]

Sounds like the advice of a lady type.  All good information, but I doubt us male types will go to that much trouble.  You are very special.  I don't let me bride read your posts so I am okay.

Willie

[Steel Horse Bailey]

To Willie:  That's one lady who probably knows more about BP and loading than most 2 or 3 regular men.

And she's kinda cute, too!     I hope to have the honour of meeting her (and her husband) some day!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

I asked the plastic question to both a Lee and a Hodgdon tech.  The answer both gave is that the dippers and plastic jugs the powder comes in are a special, non-static formulation.

[Grizzle Bear]

So how come black powder sticks to my Lee dippers?   

Grizzle Bear

[Steel Horse Bailey]

UH .. I dunno.

The answer seems kinda obvious, but that's what THEY tol' me!

[Dick Dastardly]

ENERGY that equates to HEAT sets off Holy Black.  Otherwise, it just sits there.  Now, if you kin get sparks to make HEAT, they will lite BP.  Mostly ya kan't do that.  Wear ugly wool, pet the cat, kiss yer grand daughter, hold the litnin' rod, I'll bet ya kan't set off any Holy Black.  No sir, it'll just lay there and be black and very quiet.  Now, put some HEAT to 'er tail and the whole can will go up.

So, on the subject of heat, if ya kin make enuf heat out of an electrick spark, she will set off the Natural Powder.  I'm bettin' tho, that ya will be much frustrated in yer efforts.  Now, get out a kitchen match and ya kin lite up the whole place.  BOOM!

I like to keep my humidity close to ambiant, my cloths made of cotton and I hate cats.  I expect to expire at a very old age from somethin' else than Holy Black blowup.  If I'm prooved wrong, I'll go up with a flash.  Gunfighters are like that. . . .

DD-DLoS

[Williewheelgun]

Steel Horse Bailey:

I know of Lou Graham.  She is from my country and hopes to return some day to Sequim, Washington with New York 'Wunerful hubby', ( I would refer to him as 'lucky hubby').

I believe that a lady black powder shooter in Canada, Calamity Jane switched to a 650 a year or so ago and has written her opinion about static.  She is (in her words) an anal engineer type and certainly knows of what she speaks.  She also has a creative way of adding filler in the loading process as well.  Very impressive person.

I guess man-to-man (tool user types), do not vacuum up your spilled powder.  Like Lou says, wipe it up.

This is a fun post.  It brings out the best in people who appreciate history in this old west SASS competition.

JMHO Happy New Year,

Willie