Some 1886 set trigger questions.

Roscoe Coles · May 05, 2021, 01:17:54 AM

A year or so ago an old friend told me that a 45-70 1886 had come into the gun shop where he works. There is basically no market for western guns there, all his customers preferring black plastic death or military stuff. The gun was a pistol grip color cases rifle made in 1888. It is in nice shape with a fancy checkered forearm but the stock had been replaced with a straight stock. The gun looked odd, but it was mechanically perfect with a strong bore at a very reasonable price (about $1k). I bought it figuring that improvements could be made. I lucked out about a month after I received the gun and found a correct early style pistol grip stock on EBay which fit perfectly, but was not checkered or as fancy as the forearm. I swapped the stocks and sold the straight one for about a quarter of the purchase price. Anyway, tonight I took the stock off to see if the tang was marked for fancy wood and I noticed that the gun has a set trigger, which is very nice. I also noticed that there is a spring screwed to the bottom of the top tang, which I assume has something to do with the set trigger as it is not in the diagrams I have seen for the 1886 or on my browning 1886 carbine (which is slightly different mechanically).

Can anyone tell me this spring's function? I have included a picture of the gun and the set trigger/spring.

I did not realize how rare a pistol grip 1886 with checkered fancy wood is when I bought this gun. I knew I got a really good deal on it when I bought it, but the deal keeps getting better the more research I do.

Roscoe Coles · May 05, 2021, 06:06:51 PM

Here is a shot of the numbers of special features for the 1886 from Madis, the Winchester Handbook. Note that there were 796 pistol grip guns, 501 with special wood, and only 280 that were checkered. Throw in the set trigger and that is 4 special features on this gun.

greyhawk · May 06, 2021, 06:51:41 PM

Quote from: Roscoe Coles on May 05, 2021, 01:17:54 AM
A year or so ago an old friend told me that an 45-70 1886 had come into the gun shop where he works. There is basically no market for western guns there, all his customers preferring black plastic death or military stuff. The gun was a pistol grip color cases rifle made in 1888. It is in nice shape with a fancy checkered forearm but the stock had been replaced with a straight stock. The gun looked odd, but it was mechanically perfect with a strong bore at a very reasonable price (about $1k). I bought it figuring that improvements could be made. I lucked out about a month after I received the gun and found a correct early style pistol grip stock on EBay which fit perfectly, but was not checkered or as fancy as the forearm. I swapped the stocks and sold the straight one for about a quarter of the purchase price. Anyway, tonight I took the stock off to see if the tang was marked for fancy wood and I noticed that the gun has a set trigger, which is very nice. I also noticed that there is a spring screwed to the bottom of the top tang, which I assume has something to do with the set trigger as it is not in the diagrams I have seen for the 1886 or on my browning 1886 carbine (which is slightly different mechanically).

Can anyone tell me this spring's function? I have included a picture of the gun and the set trigger/spring.

That big spring under the top tang is the carrier (cartridge lifter) spring - if you intend to strip the gun down you will need a good quality 90 degree shank screwdriver to shift it and you find if you dont release the spring tension then getting the hammer pivot screw out and back in is a PITA (can do it but at risk of boogering the thread on the hammer screw)

I did not realize how rare a pistol grip 1886 with checkered fancy wood is when I bought this gun. I knew I got a really good deal on it when I bought it, but the deal keeps getting better the more research I do.

yeah you got a rare bargain - enjoy it !

Roscoe Coles · May 06, 2021, 09:22:13 PM

Thanks for the information, I don't need to take it down. It is clean enough as it is.

HamptonBogs45 · November 22, 2021, 03:29:04 AM

Quote from: Roscoe Coles on May 05, 2021, 01:17:54 AM
A year or so ago an old friend told me that a 45-70 1886 had come into the gun shop where he works. There is basically no market for western guns there, all his customers preferring black plastic death or military stuff. The gun was a pistol grip color cases rifle made in 1888. It is in nice shape with a fancy checkered forearm but the stock had been replaced with a straight stock. The gun looked odd, but it was mechanically perfect with a strong bore at a very reasonable price (about $1k). I bought it figuring that improvements could be made. I lucked out about a month after I received the gun and found a correct early style pistol grip stock on EBay which fit perfectly, but was not checkered or as fancy as the forearm. I swapped the stocks and sold the straight one for about a quarter of the purchase price. Anyway, tonight I took the stock off to see if the tang was marked for fancy wood and I noticed that the gun has a set trigger, which is very nice. I also noticed that there is a spring screwed to the bottom of the top tang, which I assume has something to do with the set trigger as it is not in the diagrams I have seen for the 1886 or on my browning 1886 carbine (which is slightly different mechanically).

Can anyone tell me this spring's function? I have included a picture of the gun and the set trigger/spring.

I did not realize how rare a pistol grip 1886 with checkered fancy wood is when I bought this gun. I knew I got a really good deal on it when I bought it, but the deal keeps getting better the more research I do.

If you have deep pockets this rifle deserves a full turnbull restoration.

King Medallion · November 22, 2021, 08:36:53 AM

Quote from: HamptonBogs45 on November 22, 2021, 03:29:04 AM
If you have deep pockets this rifle deserves a full turnbull restoration.

Oh, NO NO NO NO! Do not restore it! That would destroy it's collectable and remove its life's history. Fix what needs fixing internaly, but leave the exterior as is.
Thant's my opinion, for what it's worth.

King Medallion · November 22, 2021, 08:40:33 AM

Ahh, it pays to read the whole OP, didn't see the stock was replaced. Still, I would not restore it externally.

HamptonBogs45 · November 22, 2021, 09:31:47 AM

Quote from: King Medallion on November 22, 2021, 08:40:33 AM
Ahh, it pays to read the whole OP, didn't see the stock was replaced. Still, I would not restore it externally.

Yeah I would've have said the same if it had all the original parts. But the stock was replaced and it isn't checkered. If money was no option turnbull could make a fancy stock and restore the handguard and the metal and internals would be beautiful.

King Medallion · November 22, 2021, 10:29:51 AM

With the stock not original, but still correct, would it be possible to have the correct checkering applied and the somehow aged? That would be the route I would take, if it were mine, and if I were really concerned about checkering, which I'm not. I'd still leave it as is.

shrapnel · November 23, 2021, 11:36:14 PM

Quote from: HamptonBogs45 on November 22, 2021, 03:29:04 AM
If you have deep pockets this rifle deserves a full turnbull restoration.

One statistic in the Madis book of Winchesters that needs to be added:

How many Winchesters have been restored by Turnbull? Too many!

larryo1 · November 25, 2021, 05:28:48 PM

Roscoe:
Several years ago, I did work on an '86 that had set triggers. I like to tore out what hair i had getting it to work properly but got it with the help of a book that the title of was "THE WINCHESTER 1873 Handbook". Now I have no idea if that book is still around but it was a good one and all the drawings were to scale. That would be a good source of information if you so desire. Also that spring that you asked about is called a "CARRIER SPRING" so leave it alone! I have 3 '86's and all have that spring and its function is self explanatory. Hope this helps.