Trouble

[King Medallion]

I'm having a bit of trouble getting my Presidio to cycle a round. I appears that the lifter doesn't lift high enough, and the round is catching on the chamber face. At this time, all I have for bullets are 400gr flat nose that really look like SWC's, (got them from Big Lube) and some 292gr (Blue Falcon). Both type will chamber and the bolt closes nice and tight, the way it's supposed to. I tried making a couple dummy rounds in hopes of getting something to work, so far, zilch. Neither bullet has a crimping groove. This afternoon I am going to make a couple more but with BP loaded but a fired/spent primer to keep from spillage. I don't think its the ammo. It just looks like the lifter isn't lifting high enough. Is there an adjustment for this kind of thing? Getting a little frustrated here.

[nohorse]

These guns are very sensitive to over all cartridge length and bullet shape.  I tried the 292's and if memory is correct, I had to crimp in the top grease groove in order to get it to feed.  The desired overall length should be around 2.6 to 2.9" and this is dependent on the bullet nose shape. Your 400 SWC prolly wont work at all.

[Cap'n Redneck]

If the cartridge elevator does not rise high enough, then maybe you need to add some metal to the end of the arm that enters the cavity at the bottom of the elevator?
I would probably start by adding a glob of epoxy glue or JB-Weld to test the concept out, unless I had a Tig-welding machine sitting idle in the garage...

[KenH]

Has this rifle been working good, but since changing something it now has feed problems?  OR - is this a new to you rifle that has never fed properly?  If never fed properly, try pressing up on the carrier a tad to see if it will then feed.  If it does, then put a dab of epoxy on top to test that as a working solution.  ONLY after assuring the dab of epoxy works, then look at bending the lift arm slightly.  That's an easy thing and can be put back to stock fairly easy.

Good luck - just realized, this is a 1876 rifle since it's posted in the 1876 forum.

[Abilene]

What KenH said. Was it okay before?  Push up on the carrier from the bottom to see if it goes up a tad and then the round chambers okay.  Make sure the carrier spring screw is tight (on the bottom of the receiver on the right side).

[King Medallion]

It's my new Presidio carbine, haven't even fired it yet. I just loaded some .montana bullets I forgot I ordered, 365 gr fn. Does the same thing. I'll try your suggestion tomorrow.  Thanks.

[ATCDoktor]

Reference the lifter not "rising" enough to feed when your lever is at full throw forward, the lifter on my Presidio protrudes .185" above the receiver when measured at the forward most corner of the lifter on both sides. 



Check yours and see how it compares, there may be some junk in the receiver or a burr that's keeping it from moving as far as needed to feed.

By the way, both my Presidio and my Chappy run flawlessly with my handloads using Montana Bulletworks 365 grain WFN's that measure 2.258 OAL.

[King Medallion]

DOK, check your PM's, I sent you one a few days ago.

[ATCDoktor]

Replied to your pm.

[King Medallion]

Checked receiver height, it protruded .164. Was no lifting it any higher either.

[Slamfire]

 King ,, PM sent.

coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[ndnchf]

For another data point I measured the lifter protrusion on mine .166". It functions flawlessly. Perhaps the trough is a little deeper on yours. From the top of the lifter to the bottom of the trough, mine measures 1.010".

[King Medallion]

OK, I measured the depth of mine, it reads 1.0235. Thats to the bottom of the slot. Is the slot supposed to be there? Looking at the 45/75, it has a slot too.

[nohorse]

Its your ammo

[ATCDoktor]

Lifter depth on mine (to the bottom of the slot) is 1.010" as well.

[Black River Smith]

Is the slot supposed to be there? Looking at the 45/75, it has a slot too.

Yes, the slot is the guide for the bolts' cartridge lip or rim tab (that little lip on the bottom of the bolt) rides in it, to get the cartridge lined up to the chamber.  They are on all of Winchester toggle link cartridge lifters.

PS.  Checked my Chaparral and the distance between 'top of lifter to the bottom of the slot' is 1.024".  My 45/60 casing feed with ease.  My belief and intent with Win toggles -- is to stay with originally designed or modern produced - original looking bullet shapes.
The tapered shape of a semi-wadcutter bullet could and has (in my case) led to the leading guide ring catching the chamber mouth.  Original designed 'cone shaped' bullets allow the 'riding in and up' of the bullet and casing.

[King Medallion]

Ok, I'll fiddle around with the ammo some more.  Thanks for the help.

[Black River Smith]

King,

Try looking for something like this bullet... see link.   https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/56-50-spencer-rcbs-82309-350/
or this.... https://www.montanabulletworks.com/product/50-lyman-515139-330gr-bp-exp-fn/

Now, I do not know if either will give you the correct OAL but both are better designs than any SWC bullet and is still in your weight range.

Also, have you given up on casting your own?
If not then look for a Spencer 50cal mold as an option.  Or go to the Spencer Forum above and see if someone has a 'cut down Lee 515-450' mold to drop a 350gr bullet, they would sell.  It should be cheaper than an Accurate mold.

[King Medallion]

No, I haven't given up on casting my own, just with the covid bs everything is out of stock everywhere. Montana bullet is not taking orders because they are so far behind. haven't been able to find a mold that isn't stupid money either. If anyone want's to cast some for me, of course I would pay, I can size and lube myself.

[ndnchf]

I can send you a few Rapine 350s to try. These feed flawlessly in my Uberti 1876. At least that can help determine if it's a cartridge problem or a rifle problem.