Tell me about the 1875 Remington

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

This photo shows an original model 1875 Remington at the top and a Model 1890 Remington at the bottom. The 1875 is nickel plated, the 1890, believe it or not, is silver plated.






Here is the 1875 almost completely disassembled.






Here are the parts to the lockwork. Yes the hammer has three cocking notches; 'safety cock', half cock or loading position, and full cock. Notice that rather than the hand riding in a hole in the hammer, it rides on a small screw threaded into the hammer. Notice too there is only one point on the hand, rather than the hand of a Colt which has two 'points'. The shapes of the trigger and bolt are quite different with the Remington than a Colt too. The screw in the hammer makes take down of the hammer slightly different than a Colt. The hammer must be lowered through the frame in order to unscrew the little screw before the hammer can be lifted out of the frame from the top.




Operationally, the Colt and the Remington were very similar. Set the hammer to half cock to free the cylinder to rotate. Load one, skip one, load four more. Bring the hammer to full cock and lower it on an empty chamber. I NEVER trust the so called 'safety cock' notch on any Colt or other single action revolver. Look at how thin the sear is. It would not take much of a blow to the hammer to shear off the sear and allow the hammer to fall all the way, firing a round under the hammer. Did I emphasize NEVER enough?



The design of the cylinder pin on the originals was different than on the modern reproductions. The reproductions use a spring loaded transverse catch much like a Colt to retain the cylinder pin. With the originals, the cylinder pin was very long. It extended all the way to the muzzle. There was a spring loaded catch on the underside of the front of the pin. When pressed up it allowed the cylinder pin to be pulled forward so the cylinder could be removed. The arrangement was the same with the 1890 model.






The shape of the web under the barrel of the 1875 model was meant to imitate the shape of the loading lever of the 1858 Percussion model. Despite what Robert Duvall said in Open Range, it did not add any strength to the barrel. Simply held in place with a slip fit pin to the frame and one screw under the barrel.






Considerably more space between the rear of the trigger guard and the grip on the Remington than on a Colt.






The 1858 Remington Cap & Ball revolvers had no bushing on the front of the cylinder to prevent BP fouling blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap from fouling the cylinder pin. This made them very prone to binding when fired with Black Powder. Remington followed the example of Colt with the 1875 cylinder, seen in the center of this photo, with a bushing integral with the cylinder. However, the removable bushing on the Colt cylinder on the right was more prominent than the Remington bushing and functioned better at preventing the cylinder pin from binding with BP fouling blasted out of the b/c gap.






There were just a few Remington 1875 revolvers chambered for 45 Colt, mostly for the Army trials. Most were chambered for a 44 caliber Remington round that used a heeled bullet, or 44-40. The 44-40 Remingtons have a reputation for being very inaccurate. The chamber throats were bored too large for the 44-40 round. The chamber throats on this one measure about .448, which is much too large for my .428 diameter 44-40 bullets. I was happy all the bullets hit the targets in this photo and none of them key holed.

[Fox Creek Kid]

... The chamber throats were bored too large for the 44-40 round. The chamber throats on this one measure about .448, which is much too large for my .428 diameter 44-40 bullets...

It has been said that Remington merely used the same .44 Remington cylinders for the .45 Colt version. That appears to be the case here perhaps. The original specs for the Colt SAA were for 0.450". As we know today, bores can vary and quite a bit at that.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Mike Venturino, in his book Shooting Sixguns of the Old West, is of the opinion that the Remington engineers took cylinders already chambered for the 44 Remington round, which used a heeled bullet, and bored them to receive 44-40 ammunition. The chamber  throats however were already oversized because the 44 Remington round used a heeled bullet, so the throats were too large for 44-40 bullets.  Mike states when he measured chamber throats they ran about .458 - .450, which pretty much duplicates the .458 I measured on the chamber throats of my M1875. Mike states he could not get a 44-40 Remington Model 1875 to hit paper without the bullets key holing. I was pleased that as inaccurate as it is, my 1875 at least put all the bullets through the paper pointy end first.

[Driftwood Johnson]

The methods for carrying six loaded, were to rest the Firing Pin between Cartridge Case Rims.

That does not work very well. At least not with large caliber cartridges.

Here is a 2nd Gen Colt Single Action Army cylinder loaded with 45 Colt ammo. Imagine a circle formed by the firing pin hits on the spent primers. The circle represents where a firing pin will rest, particularly between the rims of adjacent cartridges. Notice how little space there is between the rims of the cartridges at that circle. In point of fact, I have tried this, if the firing pin is lowered between rims, it does not contact the surface of the cylinder. There is not enough space. Instead, the rounded tip of the firing pin rests between rims. It does not take much effort to rotate the cylinder, the rounded point of the firing pin will ride up over the bevel on the rims and allow the cylinder to turn.

The firing pin will not prevent the cylinder from turning. At least not with large diameter ammo such as 45 Colt. It would probably work OK with smaller diameter ammo, such as 38 Special/357 Magnum, but not with large diameter rims.

[Driftwood Johnson]

The Remington Army cap and ball conversions to cartridges were some of the first done and THE first IIRC, to be mass produced.  They were 46 rimfires and so the 45 Colt's that the new ones are commonly converted to or built as if they are a factory gun, will not be totally correct.  They are still sweet though.

Howdy Again

Smith and Wesson was the sole licensee to the Rollin White patent for bored through chambers in a revolver, allowing metallic cartridges to be chambered from the rear of the cylinder. Contrary to popular opinion, S&W never bought the rights to the patent, White would not sell the rights. But he did sign a contract with S&W making them the sole licensee to the patent. S&W paid White a royalty of $.25 for every revolver they produced up until the patent expired in 1869.

In February of 1868 Remington and Smith and Wesson signed a contract granting Remington permission to convert some of their 44 Caliber Cap & Ball revolvers (the Model 1858) to be able to fire cartridges as described in the White patent. The work was done at Remington's factory in Ilion NY, between September 1868 and April of 1869. New five shot cylinders were made and bored for a 46 caliber rimfire cartridge. After the work was completed the finished conversion revolvers were shipped to Smith and Wesson in Springfield Mass for inspection. A total of 4,574 revolvers were converted. 50 did not pass inspection. Smith and Wesson was paid a royalty of $1 on each of the converted revolvers.

Source: Smith and Wesson 1857-1945 by Neal and Jinks

[Darto]

:)BATTER UP!!   

9245, I understand where you coming from and where you're at.  Short Answer:

You Can't Have IT.

The "Hot Reload" is a fantasy from a Clint Eastwood movie.  In reality, it was never done.  Attempting to reload anything got a person killed.  A reload in the 19th century was grabbing another fully loaded handgun.

The methods for carrying six loaded, were to rest the Firing Pin between Cartridge Case Rims.  That's it for cartridge guns.  Percussion guns were the only handguns with a safety "rest" or "pin" between chambers.

Now, further, there are some modern cartridge conversions with a safety stop.  They are made by Kirst Converter.  For Colt pattern Guns.  The firing pin rests in a recess between chambers.  Only five chambers.

The only way to get a factory gun to safely carry 6, is a modern Double Action or a Single Action with a Transfer Bar.  That's it.

Stay Safe Out There

I think that is all true. For cartridge conversion percussion guns, for the 1858 Remington Howell makes 5 or 6 shot 45 LC conversion cylinders. These 5 shot cylinders have 5 safety notches. And the 5 shot cylinders do not slant the chambers but they line up straight inline to the barrel's forcing cone. Which might make them more accurate (I have been told the 6 shot Howell 1858 conversion cylinders have to slant the chambers, I never have owned the 6 shot type so I can't check that).

[Coffinmaker]

Ah yes.  The Howell conversion cylinders for Six rounds required the chambers be slanted to clearance for the Cartridge rims.  They work Ok.

I have a really simple position though.  I Don't like Remington.

Play Safe Out There

[King Medallion]

I love my 2 Uberti Remington's. They both have given my 20 plus years of great fun shooting in CAS and home plinking. Mine are 44-40's and have elk stag grips that don't fit perfectly, but are good enough for me. I don't concern myself with the little things like whats stamped on the barrel or safety notches or cross-pins or historically correct whatnot's. I enjoy them because I love how they look, shoot, feel in my hands. I have not any issues with either in all the years I've had them. Looking to get one in 45 Colt soon.