"New to Me" Uberti Russian Model Top-Break

[RattlesnakeJack]

I thought of simply tacking this post onto my fairly lengthy North West Mounted Police Impression thread in the Barracks, but I am excited enough to make it a new thread, which I am then able to re-post here ...

In that NWMP thread I recently mentioned an opportunity to acquire a Uberti Schofield, which I proposed to use as a stand-in for the more historically appropriate S&W Russian Model revolver, thirty of which the NWMP acquired and issued in 1874.

Well, life certainly does work in mysterious ways ... turned out that the Schofield had already been sold, although the dealer does have a Russian model in stock ... but it is nickel-plated (not terribly suitable for NWMP issue ... plus, I have never liked shooting nickel-plated revolvers as the sights "glare" too much for my old eyes) and it is priced $300 higher than the Schofield!

Definitely needed to think about it ... although getting a Russian Model revolver was certainly tempting, the nickel plating and sizeable price difference were decidedly off-putting.  On the other hand, Uberti top-break S&W models are relatively hard to come by up here in Canada ... a Google search will turn up a number of dealers with them listed, but almost invariably, when you get there you are met with the dreaded ""Not In Stock" notation ... and when you can track down listings of used revolvers they seem to invariably be "Sold" ...

While pondering this dilemma, I decided to run another Google search this evening and, wonder of wonders,  up popped a brand new private gun sale venue listing for a nice used Uberti Russian model - in my calibre of choice, .45 Colt!



Price is $350 less than the new Schofield and $650 less than the new Russian model from the dealer!

Needless to say, an "I'll take it!" message was promptly dispatched ... my only fear now is that somebody else has beat me to it ...

One thing does strike me as somewhat odd about this particular revolver ... which you may have noticed in the above photo - namely that the extractor spring housing below the barrel is shorter than it should be on a true Russian Model (or a Schofield or most other early S&W models.)  Mind you, in my online researches lately, I have seen a couple of other Uberti Russian Model revolvers exhibiting this characteristic ... and tonight I think I have figured it out:  Uberti must have made some Russian Models using barrel assemblies for the No.3 Frontier model revolver -



Not a deal-breaker for me ...  I do wonder if there were any such original "mix and match" revolvers made by S&W back in the day?  Anyone know?

One thing I will likely want to do is get a pair of wood grips for this revolver, since the "ivory" grips are about as out of place for an NWMP revolver as the nickel plating ...  Can anyone recommend a source (I do have a stock availability inquiry in at VTI ...)

[U.S.M.R.]

I have a 2nd model Russian with a 1st model barrel. All numbers match and the serial number is way to high to be a "transition" model.

[RattlesnakeJack]

U.S.M.R.

I gather you are referring to an original S&W revolver? 

Could you post a photo or two to clarify in my mind the difference between the 1st and 2nd model barrels? 

Thanks ...

[U.S.M.R.]

It's an original S&W. The 1st model barrel is the same as the American. The 2nd model is the same as the Uberti Russian. I don't have any luck posting pictures sorry.

[Major 2]

Email your photos I'll post them for you 

[RattlesnakeJack]

My unfamiliarity with the different versions of top-break S&W revolvers, and the proper terminology for their components, is undoubtedly hampering my communication here ...

Here is another composite image with the specific area of barrel assembly profile that I am referring to circled on each image.  I have referred to this feature (incorrectly, most likely) as the extractor spring housing  -



I gather that the correct "Russian" revolver under-barrel profile (as well other early S&W Model 3 revolvers) should show an elongated housing - with perhaps some difference in length between models, but all noticeably elongated along the underside of the barrel - such as is circled on the the center image. Similarly, if I understand things correctly, the very short version of this housing, circled on the lower image, was not introduced by S&W until the "New Model 3" was brought out.

Are those correct understandings ... at least with respect to original S&W revolvers?

The Uberti "Russian" revolver I am hoping to acquire, as well as others I have seen in photos - such as the one I have added at the top here - have that shortened/abbreviated housing (or whatever you call it) ... 

Is anyone aware of that barrel profile having been used on original S&W models prior to the New Model ... or is this just an expedient adopted by Uberti, resulting in another departure from "correctness"?

[Major 2]

" Are those correct understandings ... at least with respect to original S&W revolvers? "

you are correct

S&W discontinued production of the other Model 3s, American, Russian, and Schofield in 1877,
When they introduced the new improved New Model No. 3 with the short housing.

[Books OToole]

There were three "Russian" models.

The first was nearly identical to the "American" (which wasn't called that until the "Russian" model came out) except for the improved .44 caliber round; The .44 Russian.

The 2nd and 3rd were pretty much the same except for the shorter extractor housing on the 3rd model.

The modern copy is a 3rd model. (1874-1878)


Books

PS tried to post pics. Failed because file was a Jfif?

[Major 2]

Books  cut and paste your jfif  to Word   the click on the photo in word , and save as: to your Pictures   it becomes a Jpeg

I didn't know the there was a 3rd Russian by name  ...I thought they were New Modal #3  chambered in 44 Russian

I believe the Russian's had reneged on the last of the #2's in the contract... Japan bought 5000 of them

[Books OToole]

Third try. (Told to save as JPG but would change in route to a Jfif.)

Failed again. This time 'file to large.'

Books

[Major 2]

Books photo

[RattlesnakeJack]

Well, Gentlemen ... I can confirm that "the deal is done", my payment has already gone to the the seller way out in Quebec, electronically (wonders of modern technology), and the transfer process is in the works.  Should hopefully be on its way to me within a few days! 

While waiting, I'll post a few more of the seller's photos -








The all-too-brief material in Arms & Acciutrements of the Mounted Police, 1873-1973 on the S&W "Russian" revolvers acquired by the Force in 1874 -





As evident from Books' photo, the "Old Model Russian" revolvers acquired by the NWMP were undoubtedly 2nd Model, as stated in the text in Arms & Accoutrements.

I see the shortened extractor housing of the 3rd or New Model Russian compared with the 2nd or Old Model, but the very short housing of the "New Model 3", as used by Uberti on some of its "Russian" revolvers (ncluding the one I am buying, and quite a few others I've seen in photos) is a definite anomaly, I gather.  I assume they did so because all of their S&W top-breaks, for expedience, likely incorporate their version of the shortened extractor rod presumably introduced by S&W with the New Model 3 so that any "proper length" extractor housings in their revolvers are likely cosmetic only.  If so, using barrels with this very short housing was either a cost-saving expedient (as suggested by some responders on other sites I have posted, who claim that this tends to be the case with earlier-production Uberti Russians) and/or Uberti used barrel assemblies with this short housing in later production to get orders out, if they had run out of barrel assemblies with extractor housings of more appropriate length. 

I guess the "story" on this revolver will be that it needed its barrel assembly replaced and the only version available was from a New Model 3 ... resulting in an "after-market" anomaly ... 

[Major 2]

Very nice, congrats glad it went your way....

Has you located a set of wood grips yet ? 

[Books OToole]

Interestingly, (to me anyway) there was an article in the Smith & Wesson Collectors Journal that mentions the opposite configuration.  Famed pistol shooter Walter Winas preferred the extra barrel weight and shot a New Model Three with a New Model Russian barrel.
(Smith & Wesson Collectors Association Journal, Book 1, Vol. I thru Vol. II. page 251)

Books

[DeaconKC]

I love the look of those grips. Might have to find some for my Schofield!

[U.S.M.R.]

From Man at Arms. S&W American #2102 was the property of 2nd Lieutenant Thomas of the 7th Cavalry. It was marked on the frame 7th Cavalry. Thomas was killed at the Little Big Horn. It made its way north of the Medicine Line where William Sharpe obtained it. He was a Mountie and carried it as his service revolver in the early 90's. It is marked W O and the Broad Arrow.
Abridged version.

[RattlesnakeJack]

Haven't located a set of wood grips yet ... backordered at VTI, and can't locate any other source.

Maybe I could trade someone ... but kinda like the idea of keeping these for Sunday, Go to Meetin' use ... 

I did come across these "Royalwood" composition grips in a GunsInternational listing, and have e-mailed the seller asking if they will fit a Uberti reproduction revolver ...





Anybody have any experience with "Royalwood" grips?

[RattlesnakeJack]

About seventeen seconds after I posted that, I received an e-mail responding to my GunsInterantional inquiry ... turns out the seller is N.C. Ordnance Inc. and they are very helpful ... They say the grips do fit repros, and sent along an exact-scale PDF outline to print out and compare to the gripframe, for reassurance ...

Will probably wait on ordering until the revolver arrives and I can do that check, in any event, but if anyone has experience with "Royalwood" composition grips from N.C. Ordnance I'd be glad to hear your impressions in the meantime ...

DeaconKC, and others ... N.C. Ordnance do carry an amazing array of grips ... here's a link to their page of Schofield grips - https://gungrip.com/search.aspx?find=Schofield

[RattlesnakeJack]

WOW ... speaking of Sunday, go to Meetin' grips ... those Uberti white polymer grips that are now on my revolver don't hold a candle to these, which also showed up on the N.C. Ordnance site ... if I get the Royalwood ones for use with my NWMP impression, I can definitely see a set of these being added as well!

[DeaconKC]

Thanks! I really like those Mexican Eagle grips. Here is a link to Altamont. Their closeout page has some walnut S&W Schofield grips.
https://www.altamontco.com/pistol-grips/closeout/co