With the current State of the hobby

[Major 2]

Dakota Ike and I were discussing the thread "We need new blood in NCOWS to keep it going "

That the Ammo & reloading component shortage along with Pandemic travel & social distancing restrictions , have and will
shape the future "if any" to WAS .
The economy during the present time, and I suspect reaching quite sometime beyond the current state precludes any new growth.

NCOWS is wise to have 2 gun classes , thus reducing the ammo/component needs.
The vaccine is a ray of hope, for many of us already in the hobby....

[ira scott]

Definitely not many participating in W.A.S. that are not reloading their own ammo. It was always cost prohibitive to shoot factory ammo, and right now the cost would be way higher, IF you could find any.  Same problem with reloading components right now, prices through the roof, or unobtainium.  NCOWS has always been more about historical accuracy, and the Two Gun Class or Working Cowboy certainly follows that grain, now along with conserving valuable ammunition! Probably be a very popular class this season, we may even need to bring out the .22s as previously mentioned.  In the end it's about getting together with friends in the outdoors and sharing a few laughs.

B.N.Scotty

[Froogal]

Definitely not many participating in W.A.S. that are not reloading their own ammo. It was always cost prohibitive to shoot factory ammo, and right now the cost would be way higher, IF you could find any.  Same problem with reloading components right now, prices through the roof, or unobtainium.  NCOWS has always been more about historical accuracy, and the Two Gun Class or Working Cowboy certainly follows that grain, now along with conserving valuable ammunition! Probably be a very popular class this season, we may even need to bring out the .22s as previously mentioned.  In the end it's about getting together with friends in the outdoors and sharing a few laughs.

B.N.Scotty

Agree. I bought a pistol that qualifies as a pocket pistol. Kind of thought I would be doing working cowboy/pocket pistol this year, but now, maybe not.

[Major 2]

Definitely not many participating in W.A.S. that are not reloading their own ammo. It was always cost prohibitive to shoot factory ammo, and right now the cost would be way higher, IF you could find any.  Same problem with reloading components right now, prices through the roof, or unobtainium.  NCOWS has always been more about historical accuracy, and the Two Gun Class or Working Cowboy certainly follows that grain, now along with conserving valuable ammunition! Probably be a very popular class this season, we may even need to bring out the .22s as previously mentioned.  In the end it's about getting together with friends in the outdoors and sharing a few laughs.

B.N.Scotty

Exactly ... I certainly entertain the use of 22's  in this current situation . (even going forward)

Entry level  Heritage Arms or Ruger Wrangler would not break the bank
Both are about equal the price of  3 - 50 round boxes of factory 44 -45 ammo....
* there are other choices one might already have

So...what do the members say ?

Open the use of 22 short,  long & long Rifle for pistol use  ( obviously no auto loaders )

Reducing costs , and allowing the conservation of reloading components.

* Uberti has a 22 Cattleman & EMF 1873 Maverick (Pietta) in 22, Ruger Single Six & Bearcat
    even Kirst conversions kits for Colt & Remington

[Froogal]

What is the availability of .22 ammo?

[Abilene]

.22 is pretty scarce these days as well, but lots of folks have some stacks of that at home already.  And hey, .22 can have the bullets pulled and be reloaded with black powder! 

I hope to make it up to Berger Sharpshooters before too terrible long, and if I'm driving that far I'm shooting 4 guns!     But yeah, having the 2 and 3 gun categories helps a lot of folks.  The WAS match I shot today, they allowed people to just shoot one revolver, plus allowed .22's (nobody on my posse did either).   It was a 5 stage match, and one of the stages is short and has no rifle, plus there were only 2 shotgun on each stage (the hammered shotgun guys didn't ever have to cock them on the clock).  So the match was 40 rifle, 50 pistol, 10 shotgun.   Still plenty of fun.

[ira scott]

Is the 22LR of today the same dimension as in the S&W #1 from the Civil War Era?  I Never thought about pulling bullets and reloading with Black,  intriguing.  However I don't have a S&W #1.

B.N.Scotty 

[Cap'n Redneck]

@ ira scott:  I fear that if You aquire an 150 years old .22-revolver and manage to load it with .22 Long Rifle smokeless ammo, You will be known as "AKA Broken Gun Scotty"...

The old revolvers were made for .22 Short loaded with blackpowder.
Later came the .22 Long, and finally the .22 Long Rifle.
I would be extremely hesitant to fire any caselength of modern smokeless .22-ammo in an old handgun.
As far as swopping out the smokeless powder for blackpowder, there's the problem of properly crimping the bullets back in the case...

[bear tooth billy]

BNS, I have an original Sharps 4 barrel derringer that shoots only 22 short
I also have a Winchester 1890 that only shot 22 short until it was converted.
22 short was THE 22 ammo at first, 73 Winchesters were chambered in 22 short.
LOL, I have wondered how it had the power to make it down a 30'' barrel.


                              BTB

[ira scott]

@ ira scott:  I fear that if You aquire an 150 years old .22-revolver and manage to load it with .22 Long Rifle smokeless ammo, You will be known as "AKA Broken Gun Scotty"...

The old revolvers were made for .22 Short loaded with blackpowder.
Later came the .22 Long, and finally the .22 Long Rifle.
I would be extremely hesitant to fire any caselength of modern smokeless .22-ammo in an old handgun.
As far as swopping out the smokeless powder for blackpowder, there's the problem of properly crimping the bullets back in the case...

I WAS NOT considering that.  I shoot a few 100 year+ guns,  and show the old girls the respect they deserve.  I'm sure Lee would make you a Factory Crimp Die for .22 BP Shorts if you paid them enough. (JOKING)

B.N.Scotty

[Major 2]

What is the availability of .22 ammo?

I'm thinking, if you had a 22 or several ( most do )  you more than likely stocked up after the last ( recent ) 22 shortage of two years ago or so 

If you did not or you can't find some now, then the 22 substitute concept is moot and won't benefit  in your case.
The suggestions are to shoot 22's you may have , in loo of  Ammo or reloading components you don't have or need to conserve.   

[Silver Creek Slim]

The trick with reloading .22 rimfire is getting primer compound in the rim.

Slim

[Mogorilla]

I am thinking of going back to cap and ball.  I have lots of loose powder, lead and caps.  I also have 10+ cap pistols and only 2 cartridge pistols and one of them can convert back to cap with change of cylinder.   I will be coordinating 2 shoots for KVC this year, I am thinking of a single pistol and rifle only and will not have reloads, I think the key is to making them more interesting while maybe using less ammo.   I have been to 1 SASS match and countless NCOWS and in my limited experience had NCOWs with way more interesting stages.  It sets the hook

[ira scott]

There are ancient fables in the NCOWS community of KVC scenarios that involved yodeling!  Interesting,  IDK.

B.N.Scotty 

[ira scott]

The trick with reloading .22 rimfire is getting primer compound in the rim.

Hey Slim!  If someone actually wanted to go to the trouble of reloading .22 RF, there are kits available. I just glanced at it, I'm not sure if it came with priming compound or instructions to concoct your own. The discussion here was pulling bullets and reloading with B.P.  I went to visit a buddy one day who was in his garage pulling .22 bullets, adding sand and sealing with wax. He was loading these in a crappy old single shot rifle and shooting flies in the garage. I had to laugh when the BugOSalt guns came out a couple years later,  I had seen the prototype!

Stay warm Buddy!   B.N.Scotty

Slim

[Dusty Tagalon]

Would 22 CB cap be low enough pressure for my Remington Elliot?
Not advocating use in competition, safety question only. Going to pull a bullet to see if there in any powder. Primer only, no powder.
Brian

[Tascosa Joe]

Okla Tom and Johnson Barr regularly pull the bullet reload .22's with BP.  If one comes up on the net, they can explain the process.

[bear tooth billy]

So, with the talk here, should we consider having a 22 class.
Revolver and lever or pump rifle. A independent club here in
Iowa has a class called double duece, 3 22's  and a shotgun.
I feel like we have to do whatever to keep people being able
to shoot. I think we should think about it and bring it before
Congress, we could drop it again if and when things get back
to normal.


                  BTB

[ira scott]

I may(quite possibly) be wrong,  but I don't think it would take "an act of Congress" so to speak.  As long it is not a Regional or National Shoot I think the local clubs can proceed as they see appropriate?  I recall shooting with Sub-Juniors?  a time or two that were using .22 RF.  It was a bit of a challenge to call hits and misses at the Berger Range when the rifle targets were 30+ yards away-but you know the old saying-"if you THINK it's a miss, it's a hit",  benefit of doubt to the shooter.(as it should be, this is for FUN!)

B.N.Scotty

[Major 2]

So, with the talk here, should we consider having a 22 class.
Revolver and lever or pump rifle. A independent club here in
Iowa has a class called double duece, 3 22's  and a shotgun.
I feel like we have to do whatever to keep people being able
to shoot. I think we should think about it and bring it before
Congress, we could drop it again if and when things get back
to normal.


                  BTB

My point exactly