HP-38 filler or no?

[Jeremiah Jones]

I am sure this has already been aske/answered, but I can't find it.  I have been reloading .45 LC with ff black powder topped with grits.  I obtained some Hodgdon HP-38.  I don't see anything about it needing a filler. Is it OK without the grits?  Or, are they still needed?

[Dave T]

I have never heard of anyone, ever using a filler with smokeless powder. And the idea of doing so with a fast burning powder like HP-38 would scare the crap out of me. I wouldn't want to be on the range with anyone who tried it either. Potential for disaster is just too high. Please don't try this.

Dave

[Coffinmaker]

  Jeremiah   

Using fillers with Smokeless is not so Bueno.  Examples in the past of the filler absorbing the moisture from the powder and solidifying.  The solidified filler acted as an obstruction and ran the chamber pressure through the roof.  Literally.  Several examples of having removed the Back Strap from a couple of SAs.  Oh, and the top strap was removed by the upper half of the cylinder blowing through it.  NOT recommended.

My suggestion??  Oh yea, my suggestion.  Switch to cartridges with less case volume such as 45 Schofield or Cowboy 45 Special.  Or use a different powder suited to the application.

[Froogal]

HP-38 is smokeless powder. It is not black powder.

[Jeremiah Jones]

Thanks everyone.

[Crow Choker]

***What everyone posted about NOT using a filler with smokeless powder----Not a harmonious outcome resulting***!!!!

J. Jones--have you every used Hodgdon Titegroup? I have used Win 231 alot for 45 Colt, HP38 is the same powder, just in different containers. Always had good results with 231, even tried some HP38, didn't notice any difference. Started using Titegroup some time back for 45 Colt (also 9mm/38 Spec/45 acp) as one of the major attributes is that it isn't position sensitive in the brass case for combustion, especially in big ol brass like a 45 Colt where the powder charge doesn't fill up the available space. Although I've never used a chronograph on any of my handloads, I've had excellent results with Titegroup. All of the published info with TG indicate pressure and fps are better and more even, also the 'not position sensitive' is my biggest vote for it. Availability may differ in your area, but if available or when so, TG is a good powder for the 45 Colt.

[Jeremiah Jones]

Crow C.  all I have ever reloaded with is ff (real) black power.  At the F. Walton Beach FL gun show last weekend I ran across a vendor selling some HP-38 for a reasonable price.  I thought I'd expand my horizons and try it.

Since I deer hunt with a .54 Hawken and reload .45 LC with it, I have a large supply of ff and even some fff on hand.

[DeaconKC]

If you are so worried about space in the cartridge, look at Trail Boss. Some folks really like it.

[Peyote Pete]

I've used HP 38 aka W-231 for .380, 9mm, .38 spcl (+P also) and .45 ACP. Even does good duty for light/medium bullets in .357 snubby loads. Aside from Power Pistol it's my most commonly used powder. I wish I could say I had the same results with Titegroup but the accuracy in .380, .38 and lite .44M loads just wasn't "there" for me, unfortunately. HP/W-231 is kind of like Unique IMO. Everybody should have some since it "works" in sooo many caliber's I have tried it in. I just got Trail Boss but all I've done so far is load softies for my Marlin Trapper. Getting hard to find any online vendors with powder these days sadly...

[mtmarfield]

      Greetings, Jeremiah Jones!

   Get a copy of Lyman's 50th Reloading Handbook! I have many, and I think it's probably the BEST manual for Smokeless Reloading available.

                      My Best!

                            M.T.M.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Jeremiah,

I've always thought as long as the primer is covered with smokeless powder one will be okay.
So in other words, if the cartridge is horizontal and the primer would be exposed you could have a problem.
It's possible with some powders to ignite from the surface rather then from the end.
A friend of mine loaded some very light 45 Colt loads for another friend, Split the cylinder & bent the top strap.
I'm not sure what the powder was, but we figured it was because it was less than 1/2 case capacity.

Hope that makes sense, AntiqueSledMan.

[Dave T]

Although I am a serious advocate of using black powder in the 45 Colt cartridge (as originally intended - smile) I admit that Winchester, in several of their loading manuals over the years, have always recommended 231 (HP-38) for factory duplication loads in the 45 Colt cartridge.

Winchester's suggested load is 7.1g of 231 behind a 255g lead bullet. I don't remember the recommended OAL but if you seat a 255g RNFP to the depth Winchester does with their factory ammo that big ol' bullet takes up a good bit of room in the case. Probably makes using a fast powder like 231 safe enough. One would hope they would know since it's their powder.

Dave

[Lumpy Grits]

NO filler with smokeless powder!
HP38 and WW231 are the same powder.
Unique and WW231 work very well in .45 Colt.
Use a firm roll crimp.
Gary

[Jeff Michel]

HP38/231 Favorite powder for 45 Colt, 255 grain Lee, tumble lube in alox, shoot as cast. No filler, never ever.

[cpt dan blodgett]

The powder manufactures all say never use any filler with smokeless.  You will read on some forums about using Dacron as a filler to keep charges next to the primer and those who advocate swear by the practice.  Not knowing the scientific background of these experts, I generally go with those folks who make the powder and have done extensive instrumented testing.  Not being a rocket scientist I would not even try to tell raytheon how to make one.  Along the same lines I follow advice of manufactures and never use a filler.  If I am worried about too small a charge not functioning well because the powder is not being held up against the primer, I choose another powder that uses enough powder that positioning will not matter.