1876 Winchester Project Rifle

King Medallion · January 17, 2021, 09:53:14 AM

Figures. SR4759 is now discontinued, and I used up the last of mine loading a couple K of 40sw. Why must the good powders get discontinued.

KenH · January 17, 2021, 09:59:27 AM

Quote from: greyhawk on January 16, 2021, 07:40:12 PM
I got ridiculously low ES over the chrony with that 45/70 load (6FPS for ten shots from memory)

That is impressive! There have been a few times when I've got ES I was happy with, but most of the time a 10 shot string will vary more than I like. I really NEED to be more careful about weighting bullets (less important) and powder charge (more important), and being sure the OAL and crimp tension are the same (also important).

Greyhawk - my hat's off to you.

greyhawk · January 17, 2021, 03:30:24 PM

Quote from: KenH on January 17, 2021, 09:59:27 AM
That is impressive! There have been a few times when I've got ES I was happy with, but most of the time a 10 shot string will vary more than I like. I really NEED to be more careful about weighting bullets (less important) and powder charge (more important), and being sure the OAL and crimp tension are the same (also important).

Greyhawk - my hat's off to you.

That could have been a fluke -- the load was accurate right out of the gate - only fired the one string for test
I do load pretty darn careful for these big rifles - that string would have been good case prep, close weighed boolits, drop tubed powder etc -trying to be as consistent as possible without being too pernickity. (Good case prep for me just means squeaky clean inside - no burrs and dings - I never uniformed a flash hole and detest trimming cases)

I have not tested a lot but have got much closer ES numbers with careful blackpowder loads than with the couple of smokeless rifles tested (22/250 and 348 win)

Somebody made a joke a while back (other forum I think) about loading wads right side up (like it was a dumb idea to bother)

every wad I ever cut was cut the same direction from the sheet of material - and every one I ever loaded goes in the case same way up ?? why would we not do that ?? does it make a difference ? who knows - but it dont cost anything - dont take any longer - might as well do it -----------

KenH · January 31, 2021, 12:25:58 PM

ime for another update on the project rifle. I'm getting darn close now. I still have to make a new forearm so it fits properly, and another firing pin. The current firing pin has an extra flat milled on top of it. When I made it I got the top milled a little to far and it doesn't cock the hammer as it should. I turned pin over and milled a slot on other side to see it work. It does, now to make a correct pin.

Here's my proudest achievement - toggle links. I've made several of them trying to get headspace correct and fitting properly. A pretty large learning curve on my part.

They fit good, just oiled a bit and now they work smooth. The headspace is right about .060" - that is space between bolt face and barrel face. The rims of brass are about .055" to .056" or so giving about .004" or so clearance headspace. Tighter than normal but it works pretty good. Clearance between bolt space and barrel face checked with a .061" pin. Bolt closes and pin is pretty tight, too tight to easily pull out. A .055" rod slides freely between bolt face and barrel face and has a tad of slop. So, I'm thinking the clearance is actually around the .060" mark which is good for my brass with rim thickness of .055" to .057".

The Jamison 40-60 brass I ordered comes with rim thickness of .055" and a rim diameter of .616". I had to turn rim diameter down to .602" diameter so the extractor would slide over easy.

KenH · February 10, 2021, 12:20:56 PM

Another short update on the project rifle. Last weekend I finished a replacement forearm for the "draft" version I made from scrap wood. While I'm not totally happy with the wood to metal fit, it's ok for now.

I also made a couple of screws from W1 tool steel, then heat treated so the slots wouldn't bugger so easy. That turned them a nice blue color also. One was a filler screw for the tang sight screw, a 3/16-36 screw. Another I made was the finger lever screw to fit the Uberti finger lever. The original Winchester lever uses a .190" body diameter screw while the Uberti is about .198" diameter body. The original Winchester screw allows the Uberti lever to wobble a good bit.

Yesterday I loaded up 3 rounds of black powder. Filling the case 100% level full with take almost 50 grains of GOEX FFg requiring compression for depth of seated bullet. 40 grains is amount required for minor compression with a lubed felt spacer between powder and bullet. Since I wasn't sure about how heavy a load this would be, I opted for 40 grains.

Not sure why #1 shot was a tad higher fps, but perhaps it was due to a harder crimp I put on one round?

I was impressed with the black powder and think I'll load up some more BP. Cleaning is easier than I'm accustomed to with muzzle loaders. I used a solvent on brush thru bore a few times, then a dry patch. Seems to be clean? Is there a special solvent I should be using?

Ken H>

King Medallion · February 10, 2021, 01:19:41 PM

Ken, that forestock looks great from this angle! Best solvent for black powder is hot soapy water, so I've read, and been my experience with my muzzleloaders years ago. Otherwise I followed up with ol Hoppes #9 a few patches, then Hoppes gun oil. Worked fine on my guns.

KenH · February 10, 2021, 01:26:11 PM

Thanks for nice words on the forearm.

Yep, hot soapy water is what I've always used on muzzle loaders, and my Rolling Blocks, but boy that can be messy. Best done outside in the yard, and the whole gun tends to get wet. I was hoping for a cleaning method that would be easy 'n not so messy - like running a brush thru the bore a few times with a "magical" solvent?

King Medallion · February 10, 2021, 01:35:38 PM

Muzzleloaders are easy, took the barrel off, cleaned it in the bathtub. Haven't actually fired a regular rifle with BP yet, just APP, cleaned as normal. Now I have read that clamping a rifle upside down in the Tipton AR rifle vise contraption works well for cleaning BP. fouling and water falls out of the gun rather than into the action, just hose off the vise when done. I have one so I'll be trying that.

nohorse · February 10, 2021, 02:00:47 PM

In order to keep gunk from falling into the action due to the requirement to clean from the muzzle, I started to use a pull through once or twice to get the big gunk out at the muzzle before using a rod. I use half & half Ballistol/water

KenH · February 10, 2021, 02:38:44 PM

I had forgotten reading about a pull thru string - I like that idea to get the first part out. That's a good idea.

nohorse · February 10, 2021, 03:26:38 PM

I use a common pull through for a pistol. They have the internal brush wrapped inside the cloth body, sold by several companies in many calibers

greyhawk · February 10, 2021, 05:02:17 PM

Quote from: KenH on February 10, 2021, 02:38:44 PM
I had forgotten reading about a pull thru string - I like that idea to get the first part out. That's a good idea.

Water is good I use a flush bottle on all my lever guns - fitted a caulking gun spout into a coke bottle lid then put a length of clear plastic tubing on the spout - hold the gun upside down, muzzle down at about 45degrees, poke the plastic spout into the chamber. invert bottle and squeeze - then I have a cleaning cradle where she sits lever UP - one pass with a rod and wet patch or a brush -----repeat this flush and patch about three times and it will run clean water - then run a few fresh patches till its squeaky dry then an oil patch = all done in a few minutes.

KenH · February 10, 2021, 05:07:19 PM

Thanks ya'll for all the guidance on cleaning with BP. I'm learning more 'n more on this site thanks to ya'll.

Grizzly Adams · February 14, 2021, 04:49:59 PM

A very interesting and informative thread. Thanks for posting your adventure KenH.

KenH · February 14, 2021, 04:58:30 PM

Thanks for the nice words Grizzly - that means a lot coming from you with the threads you've posted. I used your "Comparing the Original 1876 with the Uberti 1876" thread a good bit in figuring what Uberti parts might work. As I noted all the Uberti parts (except for the forearm end cap) and to be tweaked, filed, etc to get them to fit. The rear half of Uberti firing pin I found it easier to make a new firing pin rather than mod the Uberti pin.

This has been a fun project.

greyhawk · February 15, 2021, 09:35:37 PM

I think we need a proper picture of the finished article - when this tread started I couldnt help but think does this bloke know what is ahead of him. But Ken has just cruised through the entire process - needs a set of toggles? ----yeah no problem I can do that - headspace? - yeah got that right on the button - fit a few Uberti parts? yeah easy peasy -- now I look at this project and I wonder does this bloke realise what he has accomplished here

amazing - well done !

KenH · February 15, 2021, 09:47:13 PM

Ooops, sorry I forgot to upload a finished photo. If a hi-rez photo is desired, just holler. GreyHawk, I do thank you so much for the nice words.

Folks, I've had LOTS of fun, and I've learned more than I ever expected to learn about these toggle link type lever action rifles. Ya'll have really been a BIG help - both with encouragement and shared knowledge. The lever is a borrowed Uberti finger lever a fine Cowboy on this site loaned me until my Uberti finger lever that's on backorder is delivered. Anyway, here's the result.

Major 2 · February 16, 2021, 02:11:22 AM

new SUPER Hero KenH Fantastic WINCHESTERMAN

dusty texian · February 16, 2021, 04:45:26 PM

Quote from: KenH on February 15, 2021, 09:47:13 PM
Ooops, sorry I forgot to upload a finished photo. If a hi-rez photo is desired, just holler. GreyHawk, I do thank you so much for the nice words.

Folks, I've had LOTS of fun, and I've learned more than I ever expected to learn about these toggle link type lever action rifles. Ya'll have really been a BIG help - both with encouragement and shared knowledge. The lever is a borrowed Uberti finger lever a fine Cowboy on this site loaned me until my Uberti finger lever that's on backorder is delivered. Anyway, here's the result.

Ken I agree with the others , you have done a great job bringing that old Winchester back . Send some more post about shooting the old rifle when you can .,,,DT

KenH · February 16, 2021, 06:04:41 PM

I'll be sure to post some on shooting once it warms up some - it's COLD down here these days. Heck, we got below freezing last night. At least it warmed up to low 40's today, but that's still too cold for shooting. I had to bring some potted plants in. I did NOT move South of I-10 to be cold - I like warm weather!