1876 Winchester Project Rifle

[King Medallion]

Great job fixing the issues. I admire those that have the talent. Your side plates look alot better too. Your aluminum lever should keep you going for awhile, can you make one of steel? If you can whittle links, a lever aught be a piece of cake! Range report next? Happy New Year!
Steve

[KenH]

Steve, Thank you for the nice words.  Yes, I think I can make a lever from steel, but I do have a Uberti finger lever on back order from VTI.  I talked with Lisa last week and she "thinks" it might be shipped in Jan sometime.  I'm not sure if the Uberti lever will need modification or not, and if so how much modification will be required. 

I've still got a few things to work on, need to make a buckhorn sight and a few other things.  It is coming together and I do plan to load some light loads soon.  The thread on "Uberti 1876 in 45-60 ejector issue or brass" confirmed the problems I was having with the Uberti bolt and Jamison brass.  I've turned down a few rounds of Jamison brass so the rim is .600" range  rather than the .615" diameter rim it comes with.  Since I set my headspace for the Jamison brass (rim .055" thick) Star 45-70 brass is pretty tight with .064" rim thickness so does need to be thinned a tad.

Ken H>

[dusty texian]

Looking good Ken , I do admire you dedication and skill . Not many walking around that can bring back an antique making the parts as you go . Thanks for sharing your progress . ,,,DT

[King Medallion]

HA! You do it all the time! 

[KenH]

OK, here's another quick update on the project rifle. Here are a couple of images of the rear sight I mounted on the rifle. The sight is from the Pedersoli 1874 Sharps I've got. I removed the rear sight and mounted a ladder tang sight.  The 3/8" dovetail was right size.  All I had to do was tap the dovetail for screw to hold sight to dovetail.

[KenH]

There are a couple of methods used to lock magazine in place. Either a screw that extends thru the magazine end plug into a shallow hole in bottom of barrel, or a tab on the magazine end plug that rotates up to engage a slot in bottom of barrel.

In the image below the magazine extends out past the forearm 5-1/2". About 1-1/2" from the forearm tip there is a slot in the barrel where I suspect the original magazine ended. The slot looks like it would be where the magazine plug tab would rotate into to prevent the magazine tube from slipping forward during recoil. What do you think about me cutting this old original magazine tube to fit that slot? This magazine tube did NOT come with the rifle, I purchased it off ebay. Comments?

OR, should I leave magazine the length it is using the screw that would extend into a hole I'd have to drill in bottom of barrel?

[dusty texian]

In the past I have purchased 76 rifles that had the magazine cut back like yours . In those cases I used another piece of cut-down Magazine tube , Tig Welded them together polished the weld in and outside . The added piece cant be seen as the weld is inside the forearm  . Myself I would do this and add a Magazine tube hanger about 3.5 " back from the muzzle and use the End Cap with the slot and tab set-up .  Just a thought .     ,,,DT

[KenH]

DT, thank you for your comment, I see you like the idea of a full length magazine tube.  Most 1876s you see do have the long tube, but Winchester did have some short magazines, but they stopped inside the forearm endcap if I remember correctly.  A full length tube would be more "original", but since this rifle has lots of non-original parts and has no collector value a full length tube won't really add any value.  Let's see what other comments we get on the subject.

Ken H>

[dusty texian]

1876 Winchester rifles could be ordered in 1/2  5/8  3/4 and full Magazine  whatever the customer wanted . Personally I like them all about the same . The one I drag around the most hunting is a 24" Half Mag . Very handy feel .  Coming along nicely !!!! ,,,DT

[KenH]

Personally I also sorta like the half magazine length - the length it is now.  BUT - to stay that length I've got either cut another slot or drill a shallow hole in barrel to lock magazine tube in place so it doesn't move forward while firing.  The attraction of shortening the magazine is to use existing slot so I don't have to cut an extra slot, and to hide more of the crappy looking magazine tube.  It's in pretty poor condition and I'm not sure how well it's going to clean up.  I guess I'll wait about doing anything until I see how well it does clean up for putting an "old" finish on. 

Right now I'm just bouncing around ideas to help me have enough info to decide.  This whole toggle link lever action stuff I totally new to me.  A month ago I'd never even seen one nor held one in my hands so it's been a steep learning curve for me.  I surely do enjoy these old straight walled BP cartridges.  I had my old 30-30 rebarreled to 38-55 last year.

[dusty texian]

I think you will like the 40-60 WCF its real close cousin to the 38-55 . I  shoot Bp. in my 40-60 and its accurate but fouls out faster than the other three 76 cartridges , at least my loads do .  The first two or three shots are almost touching at 50 yd  after that groups open up . Have used IMR 3031 with good results . ,,,,DT

[greyhawk]

Personally I also sorta like the half magazine length - the length it is now.  BUT - to stay that length I've got either cut another slot or drill a shallow hole in barrel to lock magazine tube in place so it doesn't move forward while firing.  The attraction of shortening the magazine is to use existing slot so I don't have to cut an extra slot, and to hide more of the crappy looking magazine tube.  It's in pretty poor condition and I'm not sure how well it's going to clean up.  I guess I'll wait about doing anything until I see how well it does clean up for putting an "old" finish on. 

Right now I'm just bouncing around ideas to help me have enough info to decide.  This whole toggle link lever action stuff I totally new to me.  A month ago I'd never even seen one nor held one in my hands so it's been a steep learning curve for me.  I surely do enjoy these old straight walled BP cartridges.  I had my old 30-30 rebarreled to 38-55 last year.

KenH
heres another way of doing it that saves drilling or cutting the barrel
top picture is reversed, the taper part faces muzzle end - I have done this on a couple of rifles - its more of a fiddle assembling because you cant slide the tube through the forend cap but it holds tight even under heavy recoil (silver solder the little ring bit to the tube, leave the tube a bit long at the action end then carefully fit it by turning the tube end back till its a smick fit between action and the forend cap recess)
another tip - magazine tube for the 76 you buy cheap chinese curtain rod from the haberdashery/ home decor store - its much thinner than original but 18mm rod is exact OD fit for the 76 and 16mm is exact fit for 44/40 size guns (model 73,92 etc) - this stuff comes plastic coated but that will burn off and it blues ok
very impressed with your progress so far!!

Ken  I corrected my pictures
So the end cap has a tapered shoulder inside that fits the taper on the magazine tube collar (I assumed this is common feature ? a couple of 92's I have done and my Uberti 76 had it) the bit of collar you see protruding is about two cigarrette papers thick and not needed I did that because the end cap was old and been messed with before - also had to file the ring off at the top to clear the barrel dovetail. Screws ? there is no screw engagement to the tube in this setup - the end cap screws just engage the barrel dovetail. If you gonna cut the barrel for a tab on the magazine end cap (or a end cap screw that goes into the barrel) you dont need this collar thingy and it is a pain sometimes   

[KenH]

Thanks for the idea - I like it.  I think that might just be my plan now, the "collar" that will allow the endcap to hold tube in place.  Is the endcap screw long enough to press against the collar to hold in place?  Looking at my endcap it fits tight around the magazine tube and doesn't have room for the collar to extend thru.  Thanks for the idea.

Ken H>

[KenH]

Here's the magazine that's now cut off. I just slid it all back together to check fit.  I made a new end plug for magazine tube from carbon steel so it will take a finish also, and to put the tab that turns into the slot on barrel to hold tube in  place.

I've still got to finish the tube. I planned to finish the end cap, but sorta like the looks of the clean finish that has a pewter look. I know the 1876 didn't have the pewter caps like the old Sharps did, but I still like the looks.  I hope to start work on finish today.

[King Medallion]

Looks good! your the only one you need to impress.

[KenH]

OK, here's the result with shorten magazine and treated in FeCl to get the "aged" look on tube and endcap.  Bad reflection on the side plate, and I do have more work to do on the rifle.  Trying to get it shooting condition, then work on details.  The lever is a Uberti finger lever that was loaned to me by an extremely nice forum member who has been good enough to share knowledge with me.

I shot 5 rounds of 18.3 grains Lil'Gun with a 208 grain bullet, seating depth of 2.15" OAL.  The 5 rounds gave 1574 to 1621 fps range with chrono.  Tilted barrel up on two shots gave 1610 & 1621 fps.  Seems like Lil'Gun needs filler over powder since 18.3 grains is only about 40% brass fill.  Since I'm shooting in back yard I've only got 15 yds or so.  Shooting offhand there's no way to tell accuracy.  It does make nice round holes in paper and grouped like I'd expect for me shooting offhand.

[Trailrider]

I have used a 2-inch square of single-ply toilet tissue, poked LOOSELY into the case and having the bullet to compress or seat it. You should probably reduce the powder charge by 5% because of the reduced volume inside the case, or about 1 gr. DO NOT COMPACT THE TISSUE AGAINST THE POWDER!
Stay well and safe, Pard!

[KenH]

Yep, I've used toilet paper in years gone by for filler material.  These days I usually use kapot (that's not the right word, anyway it's that Polyester Fiber White Fiberfill Stuffing for stuffed animals.  Lil'Gun seems to slow enough to need it, while faster burning powders like Unique doesn't seem to benefit from filler. 

I think I'll try 16.0 grains of Lil'Gun which will be <40% case fill - that should be around 1400 fps range which is plenty for punching holes in paper at my short range.  I should mention this is for a 40-60 caliber using Jamison brass.  I had to turn the rim diameter down from .617" to .602" for better chambering and extraction with a Uberti breech bolt.

[dusty texian]

Looking good Ken ,   that should be a good shooter .  Where did you find loading data for Lil Gun in the 40-60 wcf ?  ,,DT

[King Medallion]

Wondering that myself. Isn't Lil Gun a magnum pistol powder?