Question for you smiths out there

Holsterguy · October 30, 2020, 08:04:06 PM

Finally got the call from my dealer that the pistol he got for me off of gunbroker was in!
Cimarron Thunderstorm (Pietta). This is one beautiful gun! Was really worried, being the first gun I ever bought off gunbroker. Listed as used, as is. Rush to the dealers after work and just kinda looked it over a little, being in a hurry to get home.
Ok, got home, wife and I decided to go out for supper but she wanted to do chores first.
Figured tht was a good time to look it over a little better. First I noticed how solid it locked up. No endshake. Lower hammer, maybe a thousands endshake, no biggy. Then checked for any wobble side to side, none. Checked to see how solid it was locked. Cylinder will turn backwards with a little force. Oh-oh.
What is the first thing you would suspect? Hand spring, or cylinder stop fit in cylinder?
This thing looks brand new, except for a tiny dent/scratch on the grip. Looked at date code. Was made in 2020.
Sorry for the long post, just tryin to give you all the info I could.
Thanks

Holsterguy · October 30, 2020, 08:43:56 PM

Thunderball, sorry!

Abilene · October 30, 2020, 09:40:07 PM

My guess is weak bolt spring and/or bolt head fit to notch on that back side of bolt. The cylinder notches do have a little ledge at the end of the ramp, right?

Holsterguy · October 31, 2020, 02:43:13 AM

Yes cylinder looks normal. Thanks Abalene, I'll check it out.

Holsterguy · October 31, 2020, 06:12:33 AM

Abiline, checked it out, and I would say the bolt spring is weak. Removed the spring and put a little pressure on the bolt with my finger, and it locks up very tight. Thanks.
Now to call Cimarron Monday and see if they have springs and a bolt (if I every need one) in stock.

Coffinmaker · October 31, 2020, 10:24:19 AM

PLUS ONE too Abilene

First, you stopped too soon. If the timing is correct, even a light Trigger/Bolt spring will lock-up solidly. Go back to the Bolt and the Cylinder. Take both out of the gun and check the bolt fits freely into the cylinder slots, EVERY slot. If not, the trailing side at the top of the bolt needs fit, carefully keeping the sides parallel and the top trailing edge should be lightly broken to promote smooth entry of the bolt into the cylinder slots.

Pietta Trigger/Bolt springs are on the light side for a reason. To give a nice light but crisp feel to the action. I used the Pietta SA bolt springs for all of my commercial action tuning. If the bolt head doesn't fit the cylinder, adding a heavier T/B spring will damage the cylinder slots.

Holsterguy · October 31, 2020, 02:04:10 PM

Thanks Coffinmaker. I'll check it out a little closer. When I checked before, it seemed like it fit them all ok, but they did seem like they were a perfect fit with no play.
I did notice, if it makes any difference, is holding the hammer past the fourth click, if that makes any sense to you, it didn't do it. Locked up tight.

Sorry for all the questions guys, but are no gunsmiths around here, so I'm on my own.

Professor Marvel · October 31, 2020, 04:18:58 PM

What Coffin said...

Since I am having comprehension difficulties today ( ie: i are stoopid) I will re-iterate what Coffin said with just a tish of emphasis:

snip-----------
Go back to the Bolt and the Cylinder.

Take both out of the gun

check that the bolt fits freely into the cylinder slots,

EVERY slot.
endsnip-----------

I use masking tape on the cylider to mark the slots. When I get ~~stoopid~~, confusded, it helps make sure
I am checking ALL the slots. Use a POWERFUL GLASS ( ie: strong magnifier) and a STRONG LIGHT.
I like this thing:

we got a couple of them at a rock & gem show. worth their wieght in really precious crap.

BTW sorry, but I've kinda gone stoopid, what do you mean:

Quote from: Holsterguy on October 31, 2020, 02:04:10 PM

I did notice, if it makes any difference, is holding the hammer past the fourth click, if that makes any sense to you, it didn't do it. Locked up tight.

yhs
prof marvel

Holsterguy · October 31, 2020, 04:35:08 PM

Professor, what i meant was- slowly cock the gun , four clicks will be heard. Continue to carefully cock the hammer just a little more.
Thanks for the tip about the magnifier and light!

Professor Marvel · October 31, 2020, 05:11:48 PM

Quote from: Holsterguy on October 31, 2020, 04:35:08 PM
Professor, what i meant was- slowly cock the gun , four clicks will be heard. Continue to carefully cock the hammer just a little more.
Thanks for the tip about the magnifier and light!

Happy to help...

so, if you carry the hammer past the last click it locks up tight?

(like I said, I done gone ~~stoopid~~ dense today)

prf dense

Holsterguy · October 31, 2020, 06:02:26 PM

Professor- no biggie, I usually have trouble sayin what I mean. But yes, it's like the bolt isn't goin high enough.

Abilene · October 31, 2020, 06:37:59 PM

Holsterguy, pulling the hammer back further doesn't push the bolt up further or tighter. But it does put more pressure against the cylinder ratchet from the hand, preventing the cylinder from turning backward.

Holsterguy · November 01, 2020, 05:25:55 AM

Thanks Abiline, that makes sense.

Holsterguy · November 01, 2020, 09:17:31 AM

Ok guys, just double checked the bolt to cylinder fit. Was having trouble getting the bolt to fit the way it does when in the pistol. I remembered reading Pettifogger's article about measuring, so I used a dial caliper to check.
All the cylinder slots measure right at .148. The bolt head measures .149. So this means I need to stone .001 off the side of the bolt, correct? Or should I take .0015?
Thanks

45 Dragoon · November 01, 2020, 10:54:13 AM

It's amazing to me that a manufacturer that puts out the quality product that they do can't, apparently, get one out the door with a bolt that fits the "locking notches" ( Colt parlance)!! How do their products pass inspection or a function test? It seems to be mentioned by some here constantly, but Pietta's are THE "go to", "gotta have" S.A.! Well, it just goes to show, nothing is ready "out of the box" . . . not even a Colt!!

Mike

Holsterguy · November 02, 2020, 07:21:55 PM

Got it! Only took about 3 swipes on a medium diamond stone with light pressure. To look, you can't even tell I did anything, but it was enough. Locks up good on all 6 now.
Thanks everybody!!
Thank you Coffinmaker, for talking me out of the stronger spring, I love the feel of this one.

Coffinmaker · November 03, 2020, 09:13:12 AM

PLUS ONE too the Dragoon

For years and years, I refused to even think of laying out the folding green for High End Single Actions, ie: USFA, Colt, etc. and those expensive guns still needed the ministrations of Little Old Gunplumber ME!! That much money and work still needed to make them user friendly (LOTS of work).

I'm a Pietta fan. Big Pietta Fan. I will not hesitate to tell anyone, Pietta will need minor work. the biggest failing in both cartridge guns and Cap Guns is the failure to fit the the bolt to the cylinder "Locking Notches" The parts are CNC machined for Pete's sake. Not that hard to get right.

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