Sourdough Starter

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

Anyone have a recipe they swear by and are willing to share?  I'm lookin' to try something new since my starter's starter up and died on me (from lack of use ).

[Silver Creek Slim]

I don't have one but try one of these.
Sourdough starters

Slim

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

Thanks Slim.  You look like maybe you could be an old sourdough.  Ever spent any time in Alaska?

[Brazos Bucky Smith]

 

Weeeeellll, leave it to Dr. Google and he'll come up with the answer every time!

Good work Slim!

BB

[Doc Shapiro]

Ive got this one going.  It's really good!

http://www.sourdo.com/original_san_fran.htm

Doc

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

Thanks Doc,

Looks like it might be worth a try.  Been missin' my sourdough biscuits.

Hamp

[Delmonico]

Capt:  I just had some eggs and sausage on some Graham sourdough bread. (whole wheat)  I use French Champange yeast, have tried several kinds of yeast.  Theis has the highest tollerance to alcahol of any store-bought yeast.  It also makes lots of CO2 to raise your bread. 

It will make yeast type bread in just a little more time than store-bought yeast, with out adding yeast.  Sourdough is to be the yeast.  Course salertus (baking soda) is used instead of baking powder with quick breads.  Most modern cook books don't do sourdough properly.

Just dissolve 1 package of this stuff in 2 cups warm water, add 2 cups flour and stir.  In a couple of days when it starts to seperate add enough more flour and water to fill the container.  When it smells like a combination of sour milk, vinegar and beer it is ready to use.

Used to add a bit of sugar to other starters the night before using (for yeast bread) to kick start it.  Tried i once with this, is was crawling around the kitchen floor trying to attack my wifes cat when I came home.

[Silver Creek Slim]

Thanks Slim.  You look like maybe you could be an old sourdough.  Ever spent any time in Alaska?

Never been to Alaska, but I would like to go sometime.

Slim

[Silver Creek Slim]

Weeeeellll, leave it to Dr. Google and he'll come up with the answer every time!

Good work Slim!

BB

Thank you. Thank you. 

Slim

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

  I use French Champange yeast, have tried several kinds of yeast.  Theis has the highest tollerance to alcahol of any store-bought yeast.  It also makes lots of CO2 to raise your bread. 

Thanks, Delmonico.  Not familiar with that kind.  Where do you find it?

Hamp

[Doc Shapiro]

Using yeasts isn't the traditional way to make sourdough.  If you really want to try it on your own, mix up about 1 1/2 cups of flour and 1 cup of water.  Cover the bowl with a damp dish towel (this will keep it from drying out) or a very fine cheesecloth (also damp).  Put it outside for a couple of days when the temp is above 85 during the day.  Let it sit until it starts to show a good number of bubbles.  At this point, you will have captured the local wild yeasts.

Feed it with another 1 1/2 cups of water and 1 cup of flour.  Cover again with a damp towel.  Proof at 85 degrees for 24-48 hours.  Then feed it again and proof another 24 hours.  If you caught enough yeast, it ought to be bubbling pretty good and have a good sour smell.  You may need to feed/proof it another couple of times. 

Then it ought to be active enough to make some bread!  I have a recipe to make bread from this if you need it.

This is the traditional way to make a sourdough culture.  The processed yeast that you buy in the store just don't do a very good job.  You'll get a good active culture, but it sure won't be very sour, and it won't have the right flavor.

The starter that I listed above was originally started just the way I describe, but in San Francisco.  So it contains the yeasts from there.

E-mail me for more information.

Doc

[Delmonico]

I agree that using wild yeast is the tradional way, but it is going to depend on the strain of wild yeat you catch.  Newbrasskey ain't well known for their strains of wild yeast that make good sourdough.  Many of us have tried, none I know have any luck.  So we are left with importing starter fro San Fran or Alaska or going out on our own and finding a suitable yeast to start it with.

Modern store bought bread yeast will work well for a few months, but will get steadily weaker, it will still make the acids that work with the salertus, but will not make good yeast breads cause it is getting weak and don't fart much. (sorry that is what makes yer bread rise, yeast farts)

A strain of Mexican bulk yeast did better, but weakened after a while.  A call to a 1-800 number on the back of a yeast package got me to some yeast expert at the yeast factory who told me he was not suprised, the developed their yeast to make plain old bread not sourdough.  He suggested the wine yeast, speciffically the champagne yeast since it had a high alcohol tolerance (yeast pee) and would not weaken itself out in the sourdough.  Also champagne would produce lots of co2 cause that is what make bubbles in the stuff (may have misspelled champagne in first post)

Here in my area the imported starters don't seem to do well, they seem to die out also.  The champagne yeast has been developed to work in many enviroments for making homemade wine all over the world.

I get it at the local store that sells wine making supplies and it costs me about 50 cents for a package, enough to start a starter with no problem.  If you can't find it near home let me know and I'll get a pack and put it in an evelope and send it to you.

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

Very informative comments from both of you.  My most recent attempts have been with starter recipes requiring store bought yeast, and I haven't been especially impressed with them, although I never had any leftover biscuits. 

Been doing some research also, and found a couple of starter recipes using unwashed wild grapes (red or purple) to get the initial yeast.  Since I have wild mustang grapevines all around me, I plan to at least try it. As I understand it, your starter will pick up whatever local airborne yeasts there are, which will eventually dominate the starter, regardless of it's original parentage. Is that an accurate statement, or am I misinterpreting something?

Hamp

[Delmonico]

First of all, In your area ya might have good wild yeast in the air or on the wild grapes, never tried that one but the wild grapes are few and far between.  (E-mail me a bushel or two this fall, wild grapes make great jelly.)

I don't know for sure if wild yeast would take over a starter or if the two strains will flourish side by side, don't reall make much difference as long as the breadstuff rises>

Very little have I found written on sourdough by micro-bioligists, which leads me to think that either MB's are lousy cooks, don't like sourdough or they don't know either.

What I have found though is that their is also bacteria in a starter, in fact 2 kinds, on turns carbohydrates 9into lactic acid, these are the same kind that sours milk.  Then there is the kind that changes the alcohol that the yeast make into acetic acid.  This is the kind that makes wine into vinegar. 

The bacteria seems to be in either the flour or the air or both.

Beyond this we need a MB that can give us more info.

Try either method of wild yeast, but let me know what happens, I am curious.  There must be some wild yeast in the area suitable for sourdough, the traildrives from Texas made wild starters.  Don't know if they had good yeast or fair yeast and good bacteria since they all seemed to make quick breads with salertus (baking soda) and not yeast beads. 

The SF starters seem to have good yeast, since they are famous for making yeast breads.  But any starter I have know of that was brung to my area have died in a short time.  For some reason they don't like it here.

The bread yeast ones I have made, the yeast gets weak but the bacteria stay healthy, I can make good quick breads with them but they lose the power to raise yeast breads.  The Champ. yeast keeps going for a long time, my present one was started the day after Christmas.  If I don't have a lot of time I bake up, throw away or give away my starter and just make another one since the yeast is only 50 cents a package.

My chap. yeast ones seem to need used and fed twice a week instead of once a week like others.  One can keep a starte in the icebox and only feed it once a month, but it needs about 24 hours to warm and get active so one must think ahead. 

They say in a freezer they will keep forever, but it takes 48-72 hours to get active when unthawed.  That is why I don't try to save on long term if I don't have time for it.  I need the space in the freezer and it only takes about 72 hours to build a new on with the Chap. yeast.

[Doc Shapiro]

All this talk about sourdoughs!  I've pulled mine out of the fridge.  It needs a feed and then I think I'll start some bread.  Should be ready to back by Saturday evening.

I really like this culture.  It can sit in the fridge for several months between feeds.  Then it just needs to warm up to room temp, get fed, proofed, and back in the fridge. 

Doc

[Delmonico]

Doc: Sounds like ya got a good one going, since it is a wild starter may I suggest ya put some in the freezer in case something happens to the main one.  I think I would do it, just to make sure, kind of like the Dept. of Ag. seed bank.

When I use the champ. yeast I know the starter will be the same from time to time so I don't save any if I get tired of it.

One thing I don't do is if I take some stater for a demonstration I don't bring any back, I either use it all, give it to some needy cosie who don't have a good starter or just dump it.  That way I don't bring anything back home with it. 

Sourdough seems an iffy thing around here even starting one with good yeast don't always work for everyone.  I have a friend that has no luck even with my stater out of my jar.  I think it has something to do with her house.

[Doc Shapiro]

I've got some in the freezer, already dried.  So that's not a problem, but thanks for the suggestion.

Doc

[Delmonico]

If everyone has got their starters started or warming up I will tell you something to make that most never try with sourdough and they are making a big mistake by not trying it.

Since this is a history board I will write it up proper for the period, I don't like Fanny Farmers methods anyway.  Besides that the moderators might like it better.

The night before take about a quart of sourdough stater and put it in a large bowl, add a handful of flour and a couple of double pinches of brown sugar, we are making cinnamon rolls.

In the morning add 2-3 beaten egss and a can of milk and a handful of brown sugar.  Mix and work in enough flour to make a stiff dough, cover and let rise till double.

When double punch it down and divide in half, roll out two sheets 1/2 inch thick.  Melt 1/2 pound butter and spread half out on each sheet of dough.  Take a good hand ful or 2 of brown sugar and spread on top of melted butter.  Sprinkle cinnamon to taste on top, add a little clove and nutmeg if desired and roll up, sealing the edges.

Cut with yer big knife into 3-4 inch sections and place in a greased 15 inch cast iron skillet.  Let rise till double and bake in a medium hot (350-375 degree) 30 ta 45 minutes.

When done and while still hot take a couple of handfuls of powdered sugar (white sugar ran through a high speed blender will be closer to the powdered sugar of the time) add a tablespoon or two of real vanilla extract. (if using that nastty fake stuff use 1 teaspoon, but it won't be near as good) and enough water or milk to make it the thickness of honey.  Drizzle one top and let harden.

This can be baked in camp in two 12 inch deep dutch ovens, but only put about 1/4 the coals on the bottom, this is real easy to burn.

[Delmonico]

I just noticed in the recipe post I said bake in a medium hot oven and stated that it is 350-375 degrees, the temps in degrees are right but I should have called it a moderate to medium hot oven. 

But that is the fun part about old time cooking, it works as long as you are close, even so with modern if folks just quit worrying, a LITTLE to hot it cooks faster, a LITTLE to cool it takes longer.

[Capt. Hamp Cox]

About five days into my wild grape starter, and it is finally starting to look and smell like I think it is supposed to.  Another couple of days, and I'm going to give it a try.