SASS: Big Changes Coming in 2022

Marshal Halloway · October 01, 2020, 10:32:38 AM

New advisory board members, Winter Range becomes End of Trail, National Championship is moving to Oklahoma in 2022.

https://www.cascity.com/sass-big-changes-coming-in-2022/10886/

What do you all think?

Dave T · October 01, 2020, 11:52:10 AM

The club I used to belong to and shot with (Los Vaqueros out of Tucson) started Winter Range in Williams, AZ before it got taken over and moved to Phoenix. Kind of sad to see the name go away but then this is the year for everything to be dumped or destroyed. Why not this too!

Besides, I can see E of T wanting to get out of California. Lots of other people and businesses want out too.

Dave

Abilene · October 01, 2020, 12:44:17 PM

Dave T, you do know that EOT moved from California to New Mexico a number of years ago, right?

I always thought it seemed odd that the National Championship was larger than the World Championship. I guess maybe EOT was larger when it was in California. The event in New Mexico just didn't have the population base nearby to make for enough shoppers, so the vendors started dropping off, then shooters, a vicious circle. Phoenix never had that problem. I'm seeing comments on the other Wire about folks questioning the Oklahoma venue's size being adequate. I was at a number of EOT's and WR's working as a vendor, only shot WR once, but I am reaching a point where I want to travel more and shoot those matches, so I guess I'll reserve my opinion for later on Oklahoma (a couple years.)

Dave T · October 01, 2020, 03:32:14 PM

Abilene,

I've been out of CAS competition since the 1994-95 time frame. I was just reminiscing, and lamenting the state of our world. I should apologize for spouting off on something I'm not really involved in anymore.

I'm just a lover of late 19th Century firearms and the era in which they were in use. CAS is a place to run into like minded folks.

Dave

DeaconKC · October 01, 2020, 10:28:08 PM

I am thrilled with the OK event, I can drive there!

Drydock · October 05, 2020, 06:41:06 PM

Interesting. And what happens to Founders Ranch?

Coffinmaker · October 06, 2020, 08:08:37 AM

It is my understanding, The property on which Founders Ranch is located is actually some PRIME real estate. Ripe for a Sale.

SASS is not "Growing." In fact, the CAS Game is slowly imploding. With revenue dropping it was just a matter of "when" this would happen, not "if."

Rye Miles · October 08, 2020, 07:23:47 PM

A good pard of mine has some family in Ponca City, OK. it's not too far from OK City. I might be able to swing it!! Not too bad a ride from Ohio.

Buffalo Creek Law Dog · October 08, 2020, 09:06:00 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on October 06, 2020, 08:08:37 AM
It is my understanding, The property on which Founders Ranch is located is actually some PRIME real estate. Ripe for a Sal
SASS is not "Growing." In fact, the CAS Game is slowly imploding. With revenue dropping it was just a matter of "when" this would happen, not "if."

Our club as moved from CAS while using various old west props, scenarios and targets within SASS standards to no old west props, no scenarios and targets so close that you can spit on them. It is now set up so the gamers can try for a sub 20 second stage. We went from CAS to IPSIC in cowboy clothes in one shooting season.

wildman1 · October 19, 2020, 04:57:43 AM

Quote from: DeaconKC on October 01, 2020, 10:28:08 PM
I am thrilled with the OK event, I can drive there!

Show up this year at Land Run and look me up. Just look for the Ram with WM1 on the license plate.
wM1

wildman1 · October 19, 2020, 04:23:53 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on October 06, 2020, 08:08:37 AM
It is my understanding, The property on which Founders Ranch is located is actually some PRIME real estate. Ripe for a Sale.

SASS is not "Growing." In fact, the CAS Game is slowly imploding. With revenue dropping it was just a matter of "when" this would happen, not "if."

The way I see it there has been 20% addition in members in the last 9 years. Just going by the member #'s 9 years ago and the member #'s in recent months. 9 years ago member #'s were in the low 90,000, today the latest member # is over 110,000.
wM1

Professor Marvel · October 19, 2020, 04:49:55 PM

Quote from: Buffalo Creek Law Dog on October 08, 2020, 09:06:00 PM
Our club as moved from CAS while using various old west props, scenarios and targets within SASS standards to no old west props, no scenarios and targets so close that you can spit on them. It is now set up so the gamers can try for a sub 20 second stage. We went from CAS to IPSIC in cowboy clothes in one shooting season.

Sad it may be but Clubs have to do what is needed to bring shooters in .

I myself am trying to interest one local indoor range to host modified Cowboy shoots using cardboard ~~silohuets~~ ~~sillohutes~~
cuttouts and ballons.

Quote from: wildman1 on October 19, 2020, 04:23:53 PM
The way I see it there has been 20% addition in members in the last 9 years. Just going by the member #'s 9 years ago and the member #'s in recent months. 9 years ago member #'s were in the low 90,000, today the latest member # is over 110,000.
wM1

my Good Wildman, if I read this correctly, that is only the increase over the years, as opposed to an increase in current paying members.
I would be greatly interested in finding the actual number of current paying members, but SASS holds all figures close to the chest...

As many have stated before, current shooters only seem interested in plastic crap and scenarios straight out of
apocolypse/zombie/war video games.

modern 3-gun seems to be growing, while CAS seems to be shrinking.

Stuff evolves, things change.

yhs
prof marvel

DeaconKC · October 19, 2020, 05:59:32 PM

Quote from: wildman1 on October 19, 2020, 04:57:43 AM
Show up this year at Land Run and look me up. Just look for the Ram with WM1 on the license plate.
wM1

Wish I could be there! We are in the middle of setting up our new place in Arkansas, and driving back and forth between there and Illinois takes up all our spare time for the next couple months.

wildman1 · October 19, 2020, 07:25:21 PM

Quote from: Professor Marvel on October 19, 2020, 04:49:55 PM
Sad it may be but Clubs have to do what is needed to bring shooters in .

I myself am trying to interest one local indoor range to host modified Cowboy shoots using cardboard ~~silohuets~~ ~~sillohutes~~
cuttouts and ballons.

my Good Wildman, if I read this correctly, that is only the increase over the years, as opposed to an increase in current paying members.
I would be greatly interested in finding the actual number of current paying members, but SASS holds all figures close to the chest...

As many have stated before, current shooters only seem interested in plastic crap and scenarios straight out of
apocolypse/zombie/war video games.

modern 3-gun seems to be growing, while CAS seems to be shrinking.

Stuff evolves, things change.

yhs
prof marvel

Yes it is the increase in dues paying #s No dues ya don't get a number. Don't forget all the old members of which I know quite a few starting with #1. I see a lot of shooters because I shoot a lot. I have shot 7 multiday matches in the last seven weeks and have three more to go before I head home. I have seen new shooters and whole families that were just starting out in every shoot that I have attended in the last seven weeks. I have a hard time believing that we have lost 18,000 members in the last 9 years. I can believe they move in ever increasing #'s. I can name at least 10 couples that have moved to warmer climates in the last 5 years. At least 4 couples from the state I used to reside in. We used to have 4 active clubs where I lived, now I think there is one. One of the 4 clubs I shoot at presently has a limit on how many shooters they will allow because there are just too many people that want to shoot. We assist in putting on one of the biggest shoots in SASS, Winter Range, maybe you have heard of it.
wM1

Abilene · October 19, 2020, 07:51:40 PM

I recall a few years ago when member numbers were discussed, someone mentioned the circulation numbers of the Cowboy Chronicle as being a clue. Keeping in mind that families may only get one issue, foreign members no printed copy, etc. it still pointed to a MUCH smaller number than the member ship numbers. On the other hand, I think there are plenty of folks who just shoot local matches who are not SASS members.

If I were to make a WAG, I'd estimate that attendance clubs around here are down perhaps 20% from say 5 years ago, but holding pretty steady. A look at match results over a few years on various club websites would give a better idea, but I'm not that motivated to do it.

Coffinmaker · October 20, 2020, 08:52:23 AM

Well, let's see. Winter Range is now Dead. Incorporated into a new and improved End of Trail. Founders Ranch is now Dead. No longer viable as a venue. SASS as an entity has been cutting back for years. Just look at the changes in the Chronicle as an example.

Sure, the membership numbers are up over 110,000. Only because the lower numbers are already taken. the current estimate of actual active shooter is between 25 to 30 thousand. Just a drop in the bucket. There are some bright spots, but hanging you hat an few and far between anomalies is a fools errand. the reason a lot of SASS clubs limit their numbers at annual matches is logistics. Insufficient parking, insufficient ranges, etc., Monthly matches still show reduced numbers. We have in fact lost at least 18,000 active members in the last 9 years. Living in denial is also a fools errand.

Hide and Watch.

wildman1 · October 20, 2020, 08:46:57 PM

Yep parking is limited, one of my local ranges is Ben Avery. We only have 12 stages we could use if someone wasn't already using them. Name calling really puts you in a class all by yourself.
wM1

Coffinmaker · October 21, 2020, 09:32:44 AM

Name Calling?? Nobody in this discussion has been "Name Calling."

Hide and Watch

1961MJS · October 22, 2020, 09:05:26 AM

Hi

Oklahoma City Gun Club has only one problem (in my opinion). They have all of the projectile sports covered: Archery, High Power, Bullseye Pistol, Silhouette (all of them), Bench Rest, Trap, Skeet, 5 Stand, Muzzleloader, CAS, 3-gun and the other Run and Guns. They shoot NRA 3 position on the Muzzleloader range. They don't have much of a campground and they're about 5 miles plus from town.

The PROBLEM is that the surrounding land has been purchased by the very wealthy types and they seem to want the range closed. I guess their security guards shoot somewhere else.

Later

PJ Hardtack · October 22, 2020, 11:09:23 AM

Not so. IPSC requires the ability to hit targets for score out to 40m. Further, it has a power factor that is actually enforced at Qualifiers at the provincial and national levels.
It can also require you to shoot kneeling and/or prone. It's still part of the Black Badge Course, arguably the best handgun training a civilian can access.

There was a time when most of us in CAS shot REAL loads in calibres that started with the number '4'; the era of one gun.

Quote from: Buffalo Creek Law Dog on October 08, 2020, 09:06:00 PM
Our club as moved from CAS while using various old west props, scenarios and targets within SASS standards to no old west props, no scenarios and targets so close that you can spit on them. It is now set up so the gamers can try for a sub 20 second stage. We went from CAS to IPSIC in cowboy clothes in one shooting season.