Loads for Buffalo shooting

[Bristow Kid]

For compition does the load have to use black powder?  And what would y'all recommend for someone looking to buy his first BIG BORE?

[Forty Rod]

Pedersoli Sharps in .45-70.  You can do a lot with them...sights, action work, etc...to make them a great gun.  I can't see myself with a break action H&R, no matter how good they are.

[Oregon Bill]

I'm with 40 here: Can't go wrong with a Pedersoli Sharps or Rolling Block in .45-70. If you can't quite swing one, find a good, tight old trapdoor and learn to load for it. (Spencer and Pat Wolfe's book is great for this.) And do yourself a favor -- start and stick with black powder, as it is very safe when properly loaded and it is the REAL DEAL.
I have an H&R in .38-55 that I like, but these guns are in no way authentic to the Old West.

[Bristow Kid]

Good thing you replyed Oregon I was actually looking at one of those H&R .38-55.  But hesitated cause I wasnt sure how authentic it was.  I will have to check on that Pedersoli from what I have read it sounds like a good choice.  Thanks to you and Forty for you assistance

[Ol Gabe]

What type, brand and caliber you get really depends on what you want to do with the rifle in the long run. If you plan to use it only for hunting and target plinking, an H&R will work fine and serve you well. If you want to do the 'Old Time' thing, a Pedersoli will fit the bill superbly. If you want to go full bore in national competition then you are looking at a Shiloh Sharps or a rifle of that ilk.
The H&R is gaining popularity and has been seen at NCOWS Big Bore and Buffalo Shoots this past year, it will no doubt gain a more soild footing in the future due to its price and caliber ranges. For Mid and Long Range usage such as the CVR STRAND'S STAND held at the Prairie Fire Range east of Ackley, IA, where you will be shooting at targets from 250-1,200 yards, a Pedersoli with good Vernier Tang sights has been an acceptable and doable standard, many are seen on the Firing Line and perform flawlessy with BP loads, BP being the standard at most all of these types of events.
If you are not in a big hurry to buy one, swing over to Council Bluffs and the NCOWS Convention next Feb., there will be a plethora of fine Buffler rifles to drool over, both new and used. My Pard Eastern Earl will have his used Navy Arms/Pedersoli 45-70 RB complete with the new Pedersoli Long Range Vernier boxed set of sights for sale at a fair price.
If you would rather wait a bit longer, I'd suggest sliding down to Ackley and the Prairie Fire Range next Spring for the first CVR Buffalo Shoot, it'll give you an on-site opportunity to see what works the best, ask around and most everyone will help you get a feel for what they have and how it might serve you best. There is always somebody with an extra Big Bore to sell and ammo to try out. You can access the CVR website for their '06 Big Bore, Long Range & Buffalo Shoot schedule at:  www.cedarvalleyregulators.org  Touch base with Jay Weber, he may know of some other local shooters that have exactly what you are looking for!
Best regards and good shooting!
'Ol Gabe

[Bristow Kid]

Very sage advice Ol' Gabe.  Its exactly what I planned on doing.  But with dang near a foot a snow on the greound and srping a long way off.  Figured I would get some input from my newly found friends in CASCity.  You sound somewhat familiar with that do you live around that area or just know through NCOWS.

[Black River Smith]

Ol Gabe is correct, take a good look around first before buying your first.  The Pedersoli Sharps are good and have a following at the major long range shoots from what I have read.

But believe it or not depending on your area, you still can find good/strong Original Remington RB for maybe less or the same price.

All depends on how and what you truly want and how you plan to use it.

45/70 is the most common and readily available caliber but other can be had also.  Reloading make a world of difference in these large bore rifles.  The odder the caliber, the more costly the brass and loading dies can be.

Black River Smith

[James Hunt]

All good advice above. Buy Venturino's book on single shot rifles and his and steve garbe's book on loading for BP rifles, this reduce your learning time. The .45-70 is a great all around cartridge and every one who is good in this sport (and that is not me) will tell you if you only one rifle it should be this. The .38-55 is a nice round, I have a winchester chambered for it, but is no buffalo round.
The reason the .45-70 is so great is it is very forgiving when loading. The larger .45's are popular but have a much steeper learning curve when it comes to loading - it took me a year of effort to figure out the .45 - 2 7/8 (110) with help from Kenny W. on the shiloh board. My favorite round for hunting is now the .50-70, also a forgiving round when it comes to loading.

Powder? Hell must wait for the man who would dare to foul such magnificent rifles with the Devil's chemistry that can't even make smoke when used.

Rifles? My first was a Pedersoli and it is a fine rifle. Accurate at 100 yds. for me and I have seen someone else use it at 400 yds. with success. Alot has to do with how well you reload. As mentioned above it has a following with some good shooters. To my knowledge, it is the only Italian rifle made that has that following. I also have two Shilohs (.45-110 and .50-70) and a conversion carbine. Make sure that you will be happy with the pedersoli - that it is what you want and not just what you can afford - or you will end up buying another rifle to satisfy the need (been there). Otherwise start a savings plan and get what you want. If you want a Shiloh they are very helpful and I had a very good expereince buying thru Bill Goodman (gun comes a little quicker). Also as indicated above there are some fine RB floating around and some original TD rifles for under $1000 which still have great bores.

Take a deep seat this game is a great ride.

P.S. If you need consultation on how to sneak another rifle past the wife, contact me offline. We have a support group for this.

[Bristow Kid]

Thanks James and Black River for the good advice.  Its gonna be a long cold winter here so I have plenty of time to do research.  By the way james I am single so I dont have to worry about sneaking another gun past a wife.  But I may give my brother your name his wife is hard to sneak anything by.

[Grizzle Bear]

I am firmly convinced that any original, and any proper reproduction, of a gun that was designed for black powder, will shoot more accurately with black than with any smokeless load.

IMHO!

Grizzle Bear

[Williewheelgun]

If you are looking for a new smoke pole, Cabela's have several Sharps replicas by David Pedersoli on sale.  I just took delivery of their 1874 Sharps Heavy Target Model in 45-70.  It is on sale for $1,199.99!
It comes with a globe front sight as well as a precision-adjustable rear sight.  I has a 34" barrel and weighs in at 12.7 lbs.  Color case hardened except for barrel and metal butt plate.

I decided to stay with the 45-70 as I have the dies and load for my Marlin 1895 45-70.

Isn't this great?  First you hunt for the rifle and then hunt with the rifle!

Willie

[Dai.S.Loe]

I am firmly convinced that any original, and any proper reproduction, of a gun that was designed for black powder, will shoot more accurately with black than with any smokeless load.

IMHO!

Grizzle Bear

Personally I agree with you but boy talk of throwing the cat amongst the pigeons.

You are a braver man than I.

Dai.

[gw]

DSL---I've never known Griz to be one afraid of going out on on limb, even those that have been seriously whittled on, termite eaten, struck by lightening etc., etc.  At great personal risk, I will crawl out on this one with him and state my humble 2 cent opinion that he is correct. Those cavernous old cartridges give some of the lowest standard deviation in velocity with black powder than even many modern target grade .22 match ammo. And heck, we haven't even duplicated some of the better grades of powder used in the 19th century yet. The best is yet to come!

                                                                                    GW

[Dai.S.Loe]

The best is yet to come.


Oh yes I do agree.

We have a shoot here next March, our "Trails End".

Mike Venterino and his wife are once again comming to our shores and he is giving a lecture/talk on the first night.

I've been told he was here a couple of years ago and loved our shoot.

I for one will be paying the meager price of $10 NZ ($7 US) to attend his lecture.

Just to listen to someone whose books I have devoured and has taught me so much about BP.

Dai.

[Ol Gabe]

Dai,
Are you and your Mates still planning on going to the Billy Dixon Long Range Shoot in NSW? If so, you'll get a chance at 4 prizes I"m donating this year as a token of my Families appreciation to the BPCR Shooting Sports.  Hope you go and score high!
Best regards and good shooting!
'Ol Gabe
Proud Family Sponsor of the CVR STRAND'S STAND, the NCOWS NATIONAL BUFFALO SHOOTS and this years BILLY DIXON LONG RANGE SHOOT held in New South Wales, Australia. We are proud and honored to help support the BPCR Shooting Sports Worldwide and encourage firearm safety and historical research to maximize your enjoyment of the hobby!

[Williewheelgun]

GB is correct.  I loaded up some 45-70 rounds for my new Sharps smoke pole.  Goex FFG behind 405 grain RNFP Meister boolits.

It was pouring down rain and foggy, but that sweet rifle was easy to bore sight.  50 yards, first round in the 9 ring at 3 oclock.  Tapped the front sight a bit to the right.  Next five rounds all in the 1 1/2" X ring.

Would have shot longer, but I was a drowned rat.  Just about washed the target off the board.

Never rains in Seattle!

Willie

[Four-Eyed Buck]

Guess I go against the grain here. i shoot an H&R buff with smokeless. Use the 405 grain pill with three lube grooves over 25.4g of XMP-5744 and a CCI BR-2 primer. This gives 1299 at the muzzle of the 32" barrel. More accurate than 'ol shakey here can hold off hand. This load also has an SD of 7, according to our chronograph. These are put together on Hornady dies with the use of the LEE Factory Crimp die on final stage of assembly. I guess I do have a tip of the hat to BP here as I dropped the velocity of these to BP speeds from what I used to load them at...........Buck

[Dai.S.Loe]

Dai,
Are you and your Mates still planning on going to the Billy Dixon Long Range Shoot in NSW? If so, you'll get a chance at 4 prizes I"m donating this year as a token of my Families appreciation to the BPCR Shooting Sports.  Hope you go and score high!
Best regards and good shooting!
'Ol Gabe
Proud Family Sponsor of the CVR STRAND'S STAND, the NCOWS NATIONAL BUFFALO SHOOTS and this years BILLY DIXON LONG RANGE SHOOT held in New South Wales, Australia. We are proud and honored to help support the BPCR Shooting Sports Worldwide and encourage firearm safety and historical research to maximize your enjoyment of the hobby!

Old Gabe,

Yes we are still planning on going to the Billy Dixon in NSW. It looks as though there will be about 6 of us making the trip across the "ditch". Very excited. Most of us have never shot much over 300 yards with our singles and personally I have only ever fired 30 rounds from one of these rifles.

One frien, Simon (aka  Yippee) has gone out and bought a new rifle just for this comp. I have been building one and it should be ready very soon I hope.

One of the others is going up north over the Christmas period and whilst there he is going to check round with all the farmers to see about the possibility of being able to use their land for such a shoot in NZ. We feel that it is only manners that if we try and arrange a reciprical trip for those very hospitable persons in Aussie to enjoy if the are able. Still in the talking and discussion stages just now so I cant be too specific. We just thought that we should at least try.

Dai

[Duke Nukem]

It was mentioned that the H&R Buffalo Classic is not "Authentic" Are they not a copy of the original Wesson brake action 45-70 rifle of the mid 1800s ??
Think one needs to change out the rear sight and then it is SASS legal for events ??
I hear for others that these are great guns for the money and theat they hold there own quite well in matches. I have been looking to get one but they are currently a little scarce.
Seen prices from $300-340.00

http://www.cascity.com/article0899-2.htm
http://www.hr1871.com/firearms/index.php?cat=4&subcat=23

[Bristow Kid]

I have to agree with Joss.  They dont look anything like the original.  But they are nice looking guns. And owning a H&R .223 hevey barrel.  They make a good gun.