Kirst Konvertor

[Crow Choker]

Wondering.....Is Kirst Konvertor still in business? Hadn't been on their website for a while, no matter how I entered their name, everything came back as a "blank page-cannot be found". I see various outfits still carry some of the product, but I haven't seen anything anywhere about Kirst going out of business.

[Coffinmaker]

  Croker   

Dunno.  Been a regular customer for years.  Appears today Walt's site's server is MIA.  I've been on the site multiple times in the last month.  Still in business as far as I know.  DO NOT quote me 

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Yeah he's still going strong. I just checked his website and it came up exactly as you would want. He may have been doing some maintenance earlier.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

As of three or four days ago, Walt was alive and doing well.  I talked to him on the phone - or maybe it was his Doppleganger??

He has developed a new two hand pawl for his cylinders to make the 5 shot cylinders more reliable.

[45 Dragoon]

That's an excellent move by him! It does take away some of the "drops right in"  aspect that seems to work for some. I've never liked the "odd"  ratchet layout of those cyls.

Mike

[Crow Choker]

Well I tried several times today to log onto Kirst website, just got done trying again. Tried both Yahoo and regular Google search-tried also on my iPhone. No luck. Maybe the anti gunners at those sites have me blocked. I've searched other sites, computer and iPhone snaps right to them. Above my computer pay grade to explain. Have to try tomorrow.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Hmmm, I couldn't get in either.  Ill call Walt tomorrow and let him know.

TL

[Professor Marvel]

Its the entire bank of ip adresses are down. His service is having an outage.

[Crow Choker]

Went to Grandson football game tonight, got home, tried KK website, and BOOM!!!! Thar she was!!!! Workin now 

[Long Gulch]

Hopefully the Kirst website is working well once again!

As Tuolumne Lawman has stated Mr Kirst has indeed developed a new hand for revolvers. I have six of the prototype hands. Two are in a pair of Uberti Colts 1860 Army models I bought in 2015. The Kirst Konverters had not been available for 2015 Uberti forward models until recently. You will note on the Kirst website under Colt Konverters that post 2015 Uberti 1860 conversions come with a new hand.

My Ubertis became something of a "test bed" for the new design hand.The hand gives a very solid feel and positive lock up of the action for me. I have put about 300 rounds using 45 Colt and 45 Cowboy Special with blackpowder through each gun so far and the hand has functioned faultlessly. (Can not say the same about the shooter). I have not converted these guns back to percussion as yet and have doubts that I ever will.  I am told by Kirsts' gunsmith that the hand functions equally as well with the Uberti percussion cylinder.

I also have a pair of Pietta 1860 and a pair of 1861 models and are dedicated to percussion only.  They have the new design and all have performed great. While the hand is a new design they are not interchangeable between the two brands (Uberti/Pietta).
I did not fit any of the new hands so I can not give guidance there, but like any new part may need attention to fitment.
All the hands were installed by Kirsts' gunsmith.

To my knowledge the new hand design is not in production at the present time but would have to be verified with Kirst Konverters. I am not privileged to that type of information.

When the new design hand does become available I believe the
upgrade would be very worthwhile.

Disclaimer: All statements/opinions are mine alone. I am not nor have I ever been employed by Kirst Konverters LLC. (Nor do I wish or desire to be employed by anyone again. Ever!  )

Long Gulch

[Coffinmaker]

  PLUS ONE too Long Gulch   

Employment is WAY over rated.  Retirement on the other hand .... Bis Wunderbar!!

[Crow Choker]

Waaallll-I found that the item I was kinda interested in is out of stock and got put on a list as to whenever they are produced. I've always said that ifin a shooter wants to shoot a 1800 style Colt or Remington black powder frame revolver with cartridges, they would be farther ahead dollar wise to just buy a Uberti conversion or open top Colt or conversion style Remington. Saying this due to the fact by the time ya buy a cap revolver or consider the value of one already have, buy a cylinder and an ejector (be the best thing IMO), and possibly pay someone to install and adjust, you'll have more invested than buying a hogleg already to go. (Arbor and other action items may need attention). Ifin ya already have a revolver it cuts the cost, but the cylinder I think is more $$$ than any percussion cap gun I know of. Plus even though they are advertised as being able to put the percussion cylinder back in, there are things I've been told and read that need some tinkering on to make them compatible to the bored through cylinder, ie right side of recoil shield needing milling, possibly new hand. If I'm all wet on this I'm only repeating what I've read here and on other forums, plus magazine articles. Not trying to downplay the Kirst Company or anyone who sells and/or works doing the conversions, but the $$$$ thing is what I can't get buy compared to buying a already to go cartridge firing revolver.

BUT!!!!!! Since my favorite all time percussion revolver is my 2nd Model Dragoon (do have a 3rd and a Transition also), I would like to fire 45 Colt rounds in one of them. Love the heft, looks, and feel of the Dragoons. Since Uberti or no one else makes a Conversion style revolver on a Dragoon style frame, I've toyed with doing a Kirst off and on for a while. Don't like the R&D/ Howell style being ya have to take the cylinder off every time ya shoot a cylinder full and need to reload. Easier with a Remington, bigger PITA with a Colt (I don't care how easy it is to pop the wedge in and out). Anyway, just checkin on price and availability. See Kirst still doesn't make an ejector for the Walker/Dragoon revolvers. Not sure if and when I may get a Kirst, still undecided as to which Dragoon frame to put it on, have a Walker I could do to. Chuckled at Kirst's ejector item they sell for popping out empty brass if an ejector isn't added or not available. Nothing but a long stemmed Allen wrench, even comes with a leather holster ya can attach to your holster or wherever. 

[Coffinmaker]

  Kroaker   

Waaalll ..... actually there pilgrim, I can only agree wid ya     I have built several conversions for customers and again for myself.  My latest pair, for ME were strictly the High Price Peanut Butter.  I was building to an "engraved" option so used the Kirst "Saber River" option.  By the time one includes just the parts, one has invested 12 - 1400 bucks just in the parts and donor.  And that's per gun.  I had to have a pair of course.  Building mine cost just TWICE as much as factory options from Uberti.  Now do we want to add my hourly shop rate for instillation to that???  Talk to your broker first.

Of course, Crow Choker's desire has no factory built option.  Ergo, you want a Dragoon conversion your going to have to build it.  Not going to be cheap.  If you hire the services of a Gun Plumber to do the install, gonna add up quickly.  And, said Gun Plumber best be someone with a gob of experience doing the deed.  My personal recommendations would be Kirst's own installer or Gary Barnes (Hoof Hearted).

Please understand, I'm not in any way saying DON'T.  If your desire is something a tad unique, closer to actual dimensions and such, go for it.  Just don't expect to be saving any money.  Saving money taint gonna happen.  Oh, and Kirst Konverters are NOT "drop-in"

[Crow Choker]

Please understand, I'm not in any way saying DON'T.  If your desire is something a tad unique, closer to actual dimensions and such, go for it.  Just don't expect to be saving any money.  Saving money taint gonna happen.  Oh, and Kirst Konverters are NOT "drop-in"

Waaaalllll  Actuality I have a longtime friend from my home town that has said "Well" in that pronunciation for as long as I recall  !!!

:Anywhooo", as Rifle always penned I'd love to convert my 2nd Model Dragoon, but it's my favorite cap gun to shoot, loading with the rammer and such. I'd hate to tinker with things to make it compatible for a Kirst and have it not be as reliable shooter it is now. As Coffinmaker penned, they "are NOT drop in". Yer gonna have to change some things on the original frame and possibly action to make things work. My 3rd model is a Colt Signature Model, I know they are no gold mine as far as value, but they are a special model (even with their faults ya always read about, which IMO are overstated)(Truth time--it is unfired, in org Colt box and and packing box). Guess that would leave my Transition or Whitneyville Dragoon. Probably the likeliest candidate other than my Walker which I won't do as I want to keep the barrel and such Dragoon. Maybe ifin I do go the Kirst route I can find a used 2nd or 3rd Dragoon model cheap and go from there as to not violate any of my current hoglegs. I do pocess some gunsmithin skills (though not up to Coffins, Dragoon 45, or Hoofs) that I've perfected over the years (50 give or take), including action work, tearing things apart and reassembly But---then again as I and most recently Coffinmaker pointed out it wouldn't be cheap to do compared to buying a Uberti ready to go, but they don't offer it in the Dragoon frame, sooooooo, it's either just keep wishin or make the plunge. Decisions-Decisions---Stuck in the Valley of Decision!!!!   

[Professor Marvel]

I have always felt that the "conversion cylinders" were more of a kit sort of.

They give a gun butcher a talented amateur the possibilites to get something they might not otherwise afford.
They are also  another pleasant way to "go broke slowly".

I have several of the "drop in cylinders", both Kirst and whatsisname ( the ones with the individual firing pins in the backplate) and I have not had to do "all that much" to get them shooting - for me.

But, I shoot slowly, with one hand and use the thumb on the same hand to cock, so one might say I am not really stressing it much.

For me, this is a "dress-up game" wherein I try to be as accurate as possible with history, I beleive I would probably exceed the level of
costumed museum docent. Actually , whilst in what passes for my street clothes, I have been mistaken for a museum employee
when I babble on incecsesantly wax eloquent in front of an exhibit.

But back to the topic, I see Walt's website is back online ;-)

yhs
prof marvel

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I agree with the Professor.  I like historical.  My persona in a Deputy Sheriff in the California Motherlode between 1867 and 1869.  My rifles are an 1860 Henry and an 1866 Winchester.  One pistol is a Pietta NMA (aka: 1858) with a Kirst Konverter.  It is a 5 shot, like the .46 rimfire, and the .45 Schofields I shoot are really close to the .46 RFs.  MY other pistol is a Pietta 1860 with a Kirst Saber River engraved Konverter,  Like its movie namesake, it is a private long cylinder conversion, though it is a 5 shot in .46 rimfire to match the Remington.

As back up, I have a pair of 1851 Piettas with Kirst Konverters in .38 Colt.

[Crow Choker]

I don't 'persona' anyone or any historical figure. I dress and wear what appeals to me, if it is a mismatch of 1867 to 1876 to 1885, with a little 1890's tossed in, that's what I like and wear. Doing a Kirst 'drop-in in a Dragoon frame, one I have or even buying another one isn't really a matter of $$$$ to me. I don't have the funds to buy a Roll Royce, a speedee yacht, or dine in a Ruth Crisps every night, but could afford the purchase of the Kirst and any and all other what it takes to get one going. Guess it's the principle of paying more for just a cylinder than what I paid for the original cap gun and more than buying a ready to go Uberti conversion or open top. I'll either never do it or my want will over shadow my need. I don't spend on vices that are illegal, immoral, detrimental to health, or just not common sense--don't smoke, gamble, or drink(maybe a beer or shot of Beam once in a while), so footin the bill for a Dragoon framed conversion with a Kirst cylinder is cheaper and better than any of the before penned body and financial killin activities. My vices are guns, guitars, and Craftsman tools!!! Maybe I'll shock ya all in the months ahead and post a report and pics of my 45 Colt Dragoon hogleg spittin fire and smoke and 250 grain lead projectiles at a milk jug, bean can, or unsuspecting carp!!!! 

[45 Dragoon]

C C,  maybe if you look at the cost of the cylinder as cheaper than the cost of another revolver, it might be more palatable! Lol  But, what you're actually getting is a package that is greater than the sum of the parts .  .  .  so to speak.  I can assure you that done correctly, you can have a Dragoon that can match  (mechanically) a Freedom Arms  with tollerances the same, for half the cost !! The Dragoon platform handles the .45Colt round masterfully!! (I'd vote for the Whitneyville !!)

Mike

[Mogorilla]

I have one of the 22 conversion Kirst cylinders.  It fits either the 1860 colt or the 1851 and has a rifled 2" barrel insert.   It is fabulous and since I had gotten a nice 3" barrel for the 1860 colt it is absolutely a perfect fit.   One caveat with them is per Walt's website, the way to load these is on full cock. I am not supper comfortable with that and have been doing it on half cock but it takes longer and frustration can rise.   It is a nice little shooter when loaded and lots of plinking fun.   Kirst is great to work with and I cannot say enough good things about how helpful and responsive they are.   

[Major 2]

My 2 cents ....

It's not the cost of the ride .... it is the ride itself

I have a Kirst on a 61 Pietta Navy.... I have two barrels (a 3" Avenging Angel made from the 61 Barrel  & a 7 1/2'  51 Barrel )

The 51 is lined .357 .... the 3" is not lined and I use heeled base loads.  Also all the barrel markings  were shaved  and nitrite blued  along with the Kirst Cylinder

Yeah!  it was worth it...to me