What is the real problem with .45 Colt blowby?

[DeaconKC]

I keep reading about blowby with .45 Colt in some rifles. Other than making brass dirty and extra cleaning on the rifle at the end of the day, are there other problems inherent with it? I always tumble my brass anyway.

[River City John]

Cases getting stuck in the chamber.


Usually in the middle of that perfect stage . . .

[Coffinmaker]

Hey Deacon 

Yes yessiree Bob.  There are several hazards to navigation associated with Blow-By.  In some rifles, there is straight shot for Gun Gas to Blow Back into your face.  Icky Foo.  Gummy Dirty Cases (not a big deal).  A gummy dirty Carrier Block in Toggle Link Rifles coupled with a gummy dirty carrier block Mortice can and will result in a jammed rifle when the Carrier Block sticks and blocks the Breach Block travel.  Dirty sticky Chamber which can result in a Rifle jamming because a case may not extract or chamber (always happens at the worst possible time)

Now:  This malady is not limited to the 45 Colt cartridge.  It is a problem with ALL straight wall pistol caliber cartridges in our rifles.  The reason is simple.  The Cartridge wall is thick enough the cartridge will not expand to seal the chamber.  Gun Gas blows by the cartridge mouth, fouling the chamber, the Carrier and mortice in a Toggle Link rifle and the entire action in a '92 or Marlin.

There are several "suggested" methods to fix.  Don't shoot light loads.  Instead shoot close to maximum with a BIG HEAVY bullet.  This solution will only mitigate Blow-By but doesn't cure it.  Anneal the cases.  Annealing works.  It eliminates Blow-By.  My .45 Caliber Toggle Link rifles may well go an entire season with swabbing of the bore only.  .45s and .44s can and will run as clean as the Bottle Neck cartridges.

Hide and Watch 

[DeaconKC]

  Thank you both. I don't like mouse fart loads anyway, hopefully the Rossi 92 in .45 Colt won't gum up on me. Thankfully, I plan on running a Yellowboy in .44-40 as my main rifle. I actually haven't noticed too much blowback on cases from the Rossi so far. Sounds like a can of Ballistol mght not be a terrible idea to add to the game carry stuff.

[River City John]

And a range rod.

[Cliff Fendley]

It sure is nice not to have to disassemble and clean my 44-40 guns but once every year or three after shooting black powder. I never shoot black powder in one chambered in 45 colt it's too easy to just shoot the cartridge designed for the guns to begin with.

[Trailrider]

It can also result from oversize chambers, especially in older Colt's SAA's. Blowby is more of a problem nowadays with solid-head brass. Because brass does spring back sticky extraction is less of a problem than with older balloon-head cases (thinner walls). Extraction problems can be caused due to the thin rim, but not so much with the extractor cut in modern brass.

[1961MJS]

Hi

I annealed my .45 Schofield rounds and they don't get nearly as dirty.  I will anneal all of my .45 colt brass also and plan to run it through a lever gun.  I haven't noticed blow by in the pistol, I see it on the rounds, but I guess my face is far enough back...
Later

[Tequila Shooter]

I was having the same problem until I started annealing, since then no problemo.  On my '73 the bore and carrier get dirty but the innards are clean as clean can be.

[Abilene]

I ran BP 45 Colts in a Navy Arms (fancy Rossi) '92 with no problems.  Lots through a .44 Spcl '66 as well, no problems.  And some through a '73 .45.  Minimal problem.  On the '66, on a dry day the carrier might get sticky halfway through the match, but never during a stage, always after at the unloading table.  I have a small mister (from a nasal spray bottle) in my pouch with either moosemilk or plain water in it.  A quick spritz and the carrier is good for the rest of the match.  I think I was mostly using 220gr bullets, and a lot of Cleanshot (APP) back then.  I cleaned in the action area afterwards but didn't open it up except every few years.  Pretty yucky inside but no corrosion.  The .45 had 250gr bullets, but the action got dirtier than the .44 Special, and I had to spritz the carrier more often.  Never had an empty stick in the chamber.  So while I know the .45 CAN shoot BP okay, I will stick with 32-20 and 44-40, plus I shoot lots in .357 '73 but no problems there either.  YMMV

[Bunk Stagnerg]

fire form .44-40 brass to .45 Colt. That thin neck seals the breech and the inside of the toggle ling rifle  stays nice and clean.
At least that is the best use I have found for .44-40 cases.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

[Abilene]

fire form .44-40 brass to .45 Colt. That thin neck seals the breech and the inside of the toggle ling rifle  stays nice and clean.
At least that is the best use I have found for .44-40 cases.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

Ya know Bunk, I've considered that a few times.  Since I only use Winchester and Starline brass for my 44-40 rounds, I've got a box of "other" headstamped brass, lots of R-P, 3D, PMC, etc. that I could use to fireform.  But then, I have several other rifles that run BP easily, so I have just relegated the .45 '73 to being my smokeless Wild Bunch carbine.

[Cliff Fendley]

fire form .44-40 brass to .45 Colt. That thin neck seals the breech and the inside of the toggle ling rifle  stays nice and clean.
At least that is the best use I have found for .44-40 cases.
Yr' Obt' Svt'
Bunk

Wouldn't the better use be to just shoot a 44 rifle? Never understood why anyone would want to even bother with running black powder through a 45 colt rifle when 44s are available but I see these discussions all the time. Do people not realize just how much easier life could be?

[Cliff Fendley]

Ya know Bunk, I've considered that a few times.  Since I only use Winchester and Starline brass for my 44-40 rounds, I've got a box of "other" headstamped brass, lots of R-P, 3D, PMC, etc. that I could use to fireform.  But then, I have several other rifles that run BP easily, so I have just relegated the .45 '73 to being my smokeless Wild Bunch carbine.

I here ya, run smokeless through the 45 colt rifles. I sold my last one last year and have no desire to ever own another rifle chambered in 45 colt but even then I always ran smokeless powder through them. I swear a 45 Colt rifle shooting smokeless still gets dirtier than a 44 shooting black powder though.

[greyhawk]

Q. what is the real problem with 45 colt blowby?
A . fat chambers and stiff brass
Solution = cant fix the chamber, so anneal the brass.
it dont require an enginering shop or a degree in scientific blah blah - just a blowtorch a bamboo skewer and a tray of water - ya might cripple a case or two along the way - but they not perticalarly pricey anyhow   

yeah I just bein a smartypants - didnt read the thread through - been outta circulation fer a bit - goin again

Happy christmas all !!!!!!!!!!

[Coffinmaker]

  Hi Greyhawk-n-Deacon   

When I posted to this before, I completely forgot my quick and dirty solution of using 44-40 brass, formed to 45 Colt.  After carefully seizing/expanding the first time, you get a real funny looking round until fired the first time.  Then it works a treat.

I am a Bugle Blowing Fan of Annealing.  ALL of my rifles are straight wall pistol cases.  I fail to understand why folk persist with Dash Caliber cartridges that require a lucky rabbits foot hung on the loading press for success (So there!! Cliff)

I do not however, recommend annealing for handguns.  Annealed cases can be a real GROAN to eject from Revolvers.  Although some revolvers Blow-By enough to make extraction tough anyway.  Blow-By is not the problem in Handguns that it is in Rifles.

I also forgot to mention the "other" problem with straight action Rifles.  Straight action rifles such as the Marlin, the '92 and the Lightning will foul the entire action from Blow-By.

Annealing has in fact, taken a write-off back of the Safe clunker and turned it into one of my favorite flavors.  Yes.  undoubtedly, Annealing is Skull Numbing Boring but is not something you have to do every day and is MORE than worth the effort.  Burma Shave

Stay Well Compadres, People are hazardous to your Health   

[David Battersby]

Depending on why there is blow by, what others have mentioned and poor accuracy with leading.

My 1892 Japchester had a VERY oversized chamber.   I could easily thumb seat .459 bullets into fired cases deeply.  Fired cases would not begin to enter the chambers of my two Ruger revolvers. Neck sized cases looked bottle necked. The late John Kort dealt with the same problem by using .458 bullets. (can't remember if his was a Marlin or Japchester). I tried many things with very limited success , then I found a solution.  I sent the rifle to John Taylor for gender reassignment surgery.  The barrel is now simply stamped 44WCF. I could not be happier about the quality of work he did and the accuracy of the rifle.  The one and only thing done to the action was taking a few thousandths off of the hook on the extractor.

[Dirty Dick]

  It seems to me most shooters are on the wrong track authenticity wise, trying to simulate everything about the old west, then use rifles in cartridges they were never originally designed for. There is a reason Winchester didn't chamber the 1873 for straight wall cartridges using BP. To the best of my knowledge it was never chambered for .44 special, .45 Colt or Schofield or .38 special/.357. The .44-40 and .38-40 work perfectly in the '73, it was designed around them. Perhaps there oughta be a rule that only original calibers in the chosen firearm be accepted for SASS? Maybe even a power factor? 

[DeaconKC]

I appreciate all the answers. Since I don't run BP, it seems that my main concerns now boil down to cleaning and good lube before matches. On the subject of why no .45 Colt back then was the rim was too small to give consistent extraction. Who knows, the last folks who could have given us a real answer on that are long gone now.

[Cliff Fendley]

I appreciate all the answers. Since I don't run BP, it seems that my main concerns now boil down to cleaning and good lube before matches. On the subject of why no .45 Colt back then was the rim was too small to give consistent extraction. Who knows, the last folks who could have given us a real answer on that are long gone now.

And the reason for that is the 45 Colt was designed as a revolver cartridge, the WCF cartridges were designed for use in the rifles. The story is people wanted a round that would work in both so Colt chambered their revolvers in wcf calibers.