Switching to my .38 Colt Kirst 1851s for awhile

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Glad to hear it. I'll remember that if I get to loading heeled rounds. How was the accuracy of that load?

[Tuolumne Lawman]

In this last session I got about 1.5" at 7 yards, just casual shooting off hand.  POI was about 5 inches above POA with the 1851's little nubbie sight.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

That sounds pretty good for an original sight. If it had one of those 1860 style blade sights, it would be right on.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Well now, the next chapter of the saga continues...

Took some light crimp, 3.3 grain Trail Boss loads to the local match.... What a disaster!  I started with the 1851 .38s Kirsts on the first stage.

Shooting the 3.3 grains loads with the light crimp was like shooting a .22 Short!.  All  got was a "pop" and the 140 grain bullet just wiggled the knock down target!  It was less than a "mouse f@rt" load.  Talk about embarrassing!  The cat calls and good natured laughter from the posse was relentless.  For the next stage, I retrieved my 1860 Colt Kirst Saber River .45 and 1858 Remington NMA Kirst .45 from the truck.  Shot clean with those.

I suspect the minimal crimp was the main culprit, with the reduced powder charge not building up much pressure.  I now bumped it up to 3.8 grains, with a slightly tighter crimp, but not as severe as I was using.  I also set the crimp at the very end of the case mouth.  We will see how that does.

NOTE:  When using the 140 grain heeled bullet in the .38 Colt case, it does not take up hardly any case capacity, so you really can't use the loading data for an inside lubed 140 grain bullet seated down into the .38 Colt case.  With an OAL length of about 1.5", the .38 Colt heeled .38 Colt round is about the same as a 140 grain inside lubed bullet in a .38 Special case, and both rounds have about the same powder capacity.  That's why I used .38 Special loading data.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Interesting how little power the 3.3 gr TB with the light crimp had. I look forward to hearing how your 3.8 gr loads work out.

I wonder how it would work to trim 38 spl cases (1.155") to 38 Short Colt length (.765")?

[Coffinmaker]

Not to be a Snot (All right, I am).  It just seems somewhat upside down to develop material and method to duplicate an ancient cartridge/bullet combination and then load said combination with that heathen fad smokeless stuff.

One could have all the huffing and puffing and blowing your house down with a more traditional propellant, reduced and filled with Breakfast Food (OK, like that ain't Oxymoron).  Burma Shave.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I finnally shot some of the 3.8 grains of Trail Boss/140 heeled bullet loads from my 1895 Colt DA.  Better than the othes, but still need a little more crimp.  Pretty anemic, overall.  Might also try Unique....

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I tried the heeled .38 Colts, but they just do not "have it" when it comes to power, barely nocking over the knock downs. Something dawned on me.  The performance of the heeled bullets has been pathetic, unless there is a crazy hard crimp that ruins the brass.  I know period .375" heeled bullets performed well, as did round ball 36s.  What's difference?

Then it downed on me:  FFFG black powder doesn't need nearly as much crimp, as it explodes rather than burns like modern propellants.  I don't have black, but I have a couple pounds of Triple 7, which behaves more like black powder.  I think I need to try some of that with a lighter crimp and see how it does.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

That is an interesting idea. I look forward to hearing what you find with that.