Picked Up My First RM Conversion 1851

Rube Burrows · June 01, 2020, 08:25:43 AM

Had a big long post done up but my photo was too big and it deleted or wouldn't let me post so I lost it all. This one will be a little shorter and to the point.

I recently (yesterday) picked up my first Richards Mason Conversion 1851 Colt from Cimarron. I have a pair of 51 Navy cap n ball guns and I have always loved the look and feel of the early Colt cap n ball guns. I am happy to finally own this one and will surely be ordering me a match for this one so I will have a pair.

Thought I would just show some pics here.

Also want to ask what modifications people are doing to their 51 RM Conversion revolvers to make them smooth and reliable?

Marshal Will Wingam · June 01, 2020, 08:56:13 AM

Professor Marvel posted links here to Pettifogger's instructional .PDFs on making the open top Colts work their best. Go through these and you'll find out what you need to know.

Nice looking pistol. I like those 1851 conversions.

Rube Burrows · June 01, 2020, 09:44:27 AM

Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on June 01, 2020, 08:56:13 AM
Professor Marvel posted links here to Pettifogger's instructional .PDFs on making the open top Colts work their best. Go through these and you'll find out what you need to know.

Nice looking pistol. I like those 1851 conversions.

Thanks. I will check it out.

Marshal Will Wingam · June 01, 2020, 10:31:33 AM

One thing you can do also is get neoprene spacers to go under the mainspring at the screw end. Those can be adjusted for your preferred spring tension but I strongly recommend you clean up all the moving parts first. A good deburring and polishing will lighten the trigger and may be enough. If you have done all that and still want a lighter action then get these spacers from Brownells. I have used them and they work great. You can also put a washer under the spring and lighten them that way. I bought an antique Colt SAA one time that had a piece of leather under the spring to lighten it so that is not a new idea.

Rube Burrows · June 01, 2020, 11:18:25 AM

Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on June 01, 2020, 10:31:33 AM
One thing you can do also is get neoprene spacers to go under the mainspring at the screw end. Those can be adjusted for your preferred spring tension but I strongly recommend you clean up all the moving parts first. A good deburring and polishing will lighten the trigger and may be enough. If you have done all that and still want a lighter action then get these spacers from Brownells. I have used them and they work great. You can also put a washer under the spring and lighten them that way. I bought an antique Colt SAA one time that had a piece of leather under the spring to lighten it so that is not a new idea.

For some reason, I can't get that link to work. Here it is full length.
https://www.brownells.com/handgun-parts/trigger-group-parts/hammer-parts/hammer-spacers/colt-single-action-hammer-spring-spacer-prod339.aspx

Very interesting. I never seen these used before. First a good deburring and then I will see where its at. Thanks again.

Abilene · June 01, 2020, 01:36:48 PM

Very nice case colors! I have 4 '51 R-M's, all 16-20 years old. All I have done is a spring kit in each. Also, after shooting them for thousands of rounds, I finally addressed the short arbor situation. But I did it the simple way (thanks Coffinmaker) by dropping a #10 stainless split washer down the arbor hole in the barrel, instead of adding material to the end of the arbor as shown in Pettifogger's articles.

Rube Burrows · June 02, 2020, 09:26:19 AM

Quote from: Abilene on June 01, 2020, 01:36:48 PM
Very nice case colors! I have 4 '51 R-M's, all 16-20 years old. All I have done is a spring kit in each. Also, after shooting them for thousands of rounds, I finally addressed the short arbor situation. But I did it the simple way (thanks Coffinmaker) by dropping a #10 stainless split washer down the arbor hole in the barrel, instead of adding material to the end of the arbor as shown in Pettifogger's articles.

I will try to find Coffinmaker's version of this and check out the differences.

Where are some good places to look for spring kits?

Marshal Will Wingam · June 02, 2020, 10:46:49 AM

Wolff makes some good springs. I always just re-do stock ones but they offer good quality drop-in parts if you want to go that route.

Coffinmaker · June 02, 2020, 12:05:07 PM

La Dee Da Dee Da Walking down the street one day, in the merry

Well hi there. Was just walking by and happened to overhear this conversation. SO:

HEY RUBE!!!

Always wanted to be able to yell that

The very first thing you want/need/should do is address the Barrel to Arbor fitment. Pettifoggers tutorial is excellent. Also, if you want quick and dirty, as mentioned by Abilene, stop by your local Lowes and pick up a package of #10 stainless split washers. Drop one down the hole and should be good. Next step is the OEM Truck Springs in the gun. I don't like washers under the Main Spring (Sorry Marshal Will). I also have a personal "thing" with Wolff (Sorry again Marshal). My recommendation is "Lee's gunfighter" spring sets. From Brownells or Long Hunter. You get a really nice Main Spring and a really nice wire Trigger/Bolt spring. My personal preference for a Uberti action is a Pietta SA Trigger/Bolt spring (VTI Gunparts). there is a bunch else you can do but these changes will make your Uberti '51 Conversions quite user friendly.

Rube Burrows · June 02, 2020, 01:53:08 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on June 02, 2020, 12:05:07 PM
La Dee Da Dee Da Walking down the street one day, in the merry Well hi there. Was just walking by and happened to overhear this conversation. SO:

HEY RUBE!!! Always wanted to be able to yell that The very first thing you want/need/should do is address the Barrel to Arbor fitment. Pettifoggers tutorial is excellent. Also, if you want quick and dirty, as mentioned by Abilene, stop by your local Lowes and pick up a package of #10 stainless split washers. Drop one down the hole and should be good. Next step is the OEM Truck Springs in the gun. I don't like washers under the Main Spring (Sorry Marshal Will). I also have a personal "thing" with Wolff (Sorry again Marshal). My recommendation is "Lee's gunfighter" spring sets. From Brownells or Long Hunter. You get a really nice Main Spring and a really nice wire Trigger/Bolt spring. My personal preference for a Uberti action is a Pietta SA Trigger/Bolt spring (VTI Gunparts). there is a bunch else you can do but these changes will make your Uberti '51 Conversions quite user friendly.

Howdy Coffinmaker. Glad you overheard and decided to join the conversation. Always good to hear other options from others in the know. I have been reading over Pettifogger's tutorial all morning while working. Lots of good info there.

Coffinmaker · June 02, 2020, 03:40:40 PM

Cool Beans Rube

Pettifoggers tutorial is the Beez Kneez. It is unfortunate Uberti has NOT seen fit to correct an obvious manufacturing defect with the Barrel to Arbor Fitment. It has been bad for DECADES. ALL of Uberti Open Top type replicas suffer this failure. Uncorrected it can lead to much unhappiness. Often there is interference from burrs and rough machining in the hole in the barrel. You may have to fix that. Also, the Arbor can be rough at the end making it difficult to actually see the problem. You will probably have to re-fit the wedge once the barrel/armor is corrected. Enjoy your Knew-Two-Ewe conversion.

Rube Burrows · June 02, 2020, 04:19:57 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on June 02, 2020, 03:40:40 PM
Cool Beans Rube

Pettifoggers tutorial is the Beez Kneez. It is unfortunate Uberti has NOT seen fit to correct an obvious manufacturing defect with the Barrel to Arbor Fitment. It has been bad for DECADES. ALL of Uberti Open Top type replicas suffer this failure. Uncorrected it can lead to much unhappiness. Often there is interference from burrs and rough machining in the hole in the barrel. You may have to fix that. Also, the Arbor can be rough at the end making it difficult to actually see the problem. You will probably have to re-fit the wedge once the barrel/armor is corrected. Enjoy your Knew-Two-Ewe conversion.

Thank you again. I will def enjoy the new gun and with hopefully some minor modifications I will have it running even better than stock.

Rube Burrows · June 03, 2020, 03:47:42 PM

I am about to post some photos. After reading pettifogger's part of the arbor fitment section I tried my gun out and I am wondering if maybe they have corrected the issue? When I put my barrel on the arbor and push it on it butts up pretty good. If I really dig on it and twist it as hard as I can I can get it to go just a little past the frame. Prob. less than a thousandth. After looking at my photos do you think this is something that warrants all that work or is it within spec?

First and second photo is me just sliding it to where it naturally goes without forcing.

Rube Burrows · June 03, 2020, 03:48:41 PM

If I really twist it and crank down on it I can get it to go just slightly past the frame.

Rube Burrows · June 03, 2020, 03:49:42 PM

Trying to show my barrel gap. Have to hold it just right to see through it slightly.

Coffinmaker · June 04, 2020, 11:15:53 AM

HEY RUBE

You have no idea how much I really like that line. Anyway:

NO. Leave it alone. Your gun is close enough. Were it mine I'd call it good and forget about it. Barrel to cylinder gap is best measured with an automotive blade type feeler gauge. Unless you experience binding, I wouldn't fret about it. You want about .001 End Shake and about .005 - .006 Head Space. Normal Barrel to Cylinder gap is .004 - .005. Inspect the face of your cylinder and if the cylinder doesn't show wear marks, leave that alone too.

You're gonna have fun with your Open Top.

PS: I describe ALL the Open Type guns, BP and Suppository as "Open Top" even though your is a conversion. The better "conversion" as well, the bore being 357 from the start.

Rube Burrows · June 04, 2020, 05:40:54 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on June 04, 2020, 11:15:53 AM
HEY RUBE You have no idea how much I really like that line. Anyway:

NO. Leave it alone. Your gun is close enough. Were it mine I'd call it good and forget about it. Barrel to cylinder gap is best measured with an automotive blade type feeler gauge. Unless you experience binding, I wouldn't fret about it. You want about .001 End Shake and about .005 - .006 Head Space. Normal Barrel to Cylinder gap is .004 - .005. Inspect the face of your cylinder and if the cylinder doesn't show wear marks, leave that alone too.

You're gonna have fun with your Open Top.

PS: I describe ALL the Open Type guns, BP and Suppository as "Open Top" even though your is a conversion. The better "conversion" as well, the bore being 357 from the start.

Good deal. I will keep an eye on it but enjoy it as is for now. Now I need to order me another because the thing about cowboy pistols is they look better in pairs.

Tuolumne Lawman · June 04, 2020, 10:10:57 PM

Nice! I am a growing fan of the 1851s and the 38 Colt cartridge. I have 2 Pietta 1851s I did Kirst gated conversions on and REALLY like them. Much more graceful than my 1858 Remington cartridge conversion, or even my 1850 Colt conversion. If the pandemic settles down enough, I may even get a chance to shoot them!

I could actually see myself switching form my .45 Schofield Konversions to the 1851s as my main match. I would, however be shooting heeled bullets from the .375 bores like originals.

BTW, one of my next Cowboy Chronicle articles is about the .38 Colt in the oldWest. Not sure what month, but Skinny the editor, has it and pics already.

My 1851s:

My larger 45 Colt Konversions. Not nearly as graceful....

Marshal Will Wingam · June 04, 2020, 11:02:14 PM

Nice pistols. Which bullets have you chosen to try in those .38 Colt conversions?

Rube Burrows · June 05, 2020, 06:37:25 AM

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman on June 04, 2020, 10:10:57 PM
Nice! I am a growing fan of the 1851s and the 38 Colt cartridge. I have 2 Pietta 1851s I did Kirst gated conversions on and REALLY like them. Much more graceful than my 1858 Remington cartridge conversion, or even my 1850 Colt conversion. If the pandemic settles down enough, I may even get a chance to shoot them!

I could actually see myself switching form my .45 Schofield Konversions to the 1851s as my main match. I would, however be shooting heeled bullets from the .375 bores like originals.

BTW, one of my next Cowboy Chronicle articles is about the .38 Colt in the oldWest. Not sure what month, but Skinny the editor, has it and pics already.

My 1851s:

My larger 45 Colt Konversions. Not nearly as graceful....

Great looking guns. I will look forward to the article as I would like to get to know the .38 Colt more.