Lee FCD , lead bullets ?

[brudford]

 Tried the Lee factory Crimp die with my Lyman 44-40 wcf mold with the bevel base # 427666BV 20:1 alloy mix . This bullet has a crimp groove . Well first off very difficult to get a roll crimp in the crimp groove ? Just about every piece of brass had a circular cut at the top of the brass ? According to Lee's instruction sheet , " if bullet has a crimp groove, it is usually best to seat the bullet so most of the groove is inside the case mouth , bullets do not need a crimp groove as the Lee FCD will form one while crimping , however requires a harder push on the press lever to form the crimp . " Hugh !!!! So now I'am resizing my bullets . So maybe this die is more for jacketed bullets ? I have a Hornaday Cowboy seating die with the alignment sleeve on order . Sent an e-mail to Hornaday to see if they will sell me a roll crimp ring as I think the die comes with just a tamper crimp ring ? Happy the Lee FCD was very cheap to buy . Thanks

[Dirty Dick]

I have a Lee factory crimp die in .44-40, damages all my brass, free to a good home just pay shipping!

[brudford]

 Yes it also damaged some of my brass . I really think it was designed for jacketed bullets ? I bought mine on sale for $ 9.99 . I think I might try to find a mould that does not have a crimp groove and try that . maybe a Lee mould, however their moulds usually have grease lube grooves that are way to shallow . We are loading 19th century loads with modern day technology and maybe the two do not mix ? I read where back in the 1960's when BP and their guns started to make a come-back in the USA that manufacteurs had to seek out some of the old timers who remembered how to shoot and load for theses old obselete calibers .

[Slamfire]

 I have a set of LEE's that I bought when I bought my 44-40 ( Rossi ) I use 427098  I crimp "ON " the front edge of the driving band to get OAL ( close counts ),, if I roll crimp in the grove ,, mine crimps just below the top edge of the driving band , not rolled down in it , if you crimp to hard the case will get a bulge and the bullet will twist in the case ( took several tries to get it right ). I have a new FCD,, "some where ",, I bought some once fired cases crimped w/ FCD , took a couple loading to fix'm .


  coffee's ready ,, Hootmix.

[Abilene]

I have always used Lee dies, including the collet FCD in 44-40 and 32-20.  I see the horizontal line on the brass left by the crimper that people are calling damage, but it has never bothered me.  Never had a problem with bullet pushing back into the case on smokeless loads, and never had any splits to the brass from the die.
YMMV

[Tascosa Joe]

I have used the Lee LCD in 38-40 for about 30 years and have not had any issues except for one that fell apart after 10 yrs.

[Drydock]

That's not damage, that's how it works.  It does help to have your brass properly trimmed, the Collet FCD will crimp at the same location regardless of case length. 

[wildman1]

It has to do with technique. If you are doing it wrong you will not get good results. I have been using Lee FCD's for many years and it does have a learning curve but they work very well.
wM1

[Dirty Dick]

Just another piece of Lee expensive junk. It just went in the trash.

[Cliff Fendley]

If you are getting that ring the brass is just over length. Personally I don't care for CAS ammo and that ring you're calling damage is not hurting anything. I've got 44-40 brass that has been fired a dozen times still just fine using the LFC die.

[Crow Choker]

While I've noticed 'the ring' some of you are talking about while using a Lee FCD, I've never noticed it damaging any brass. I started using them some time ago for 38/.357, three 44 calibers, and 45 Colt. After a knowledgeable former CAS forum member after his tests and research on the FCD's pointed out since the Lee's not only crimp the bullet as they are supposed to do, but due to the fact that they resize the brass again. Not only resizing the brass, but will have the effect of 'swaging' the bullet to the same diameter. So if you buy lead bullets at a specific diameter or cast and size bullets to say .358 or .430 dia for their respective caliber, the Lee FCD will and can squeeze that bullet to a smaller diameter wanted. It was pointed out that the sizer ring can be knocked out of the die with no problem.

I for one don't understand if a reloader has previously sized his brass, why they need it a second time. Any more I mostly seat bullets and roll crimp in two separate operations as I did before the Lee FCD buys. I did knock the sizer ring out of the 44 caliber crimp die and will use it to crimp after bullet seating once in a while. Lee does offer crimp die's called a 'Collect Crimp Die' that crimps only and foregoes the resizing. That is how I'd go if I were to go the Lee FCD route. Maybe as has been penned, the Lee's work better for jacketed bullets only. Couldn't say, I have crimped jacketed bullets with them with no problem. If care is taken to resize brass properly and cases are checked for any that are excessive short or long, pretty uniform bullet seating and crimping can be done with the seater/crimper that came with whatever caliber your set came with. The Lee's can be used, but since they're a separate operation after seating, no big time saving factor is gained if ya seat and crimp in separate operations with the die that came with the set. JMO!!!!

[AntiqueSledMan]

Are you guys talking about the LEE Factory Crimp Die, or the LEE Carbide Factory Crimp Die?

[Crow Choker]

I think both of them got tossed in the fray!

[wildman1]

The FCD's in 44/40 etc that have the collet do not have a carbide insert.
wM1

[Crow Choker]

The FCD's in 44/40 etc that have the collet do not have a carbide insert.
wM1

Yep Wildman, yer right. I forgot the bottle neck revolver/pistol Lee FCD's didn't have the carbide resizing ring, but rather just had the collect style crimper. The collect style is also available for the straight wall style brass also. They make more sense to me vs the carbide sizing FCD's, as I previously penned, doesn't make alotta sense when a person has previously resized their brass and the possibility of resizing the bullet. If I recall there was a thread sometime back that dealt with this and what you pointed out.
The Lee's do give a nice crimp and are esp handy when the length of some brass may vary +- .001", crimping nicely where if using a regular roll crimp die can make a bullet look as if it is seated to deeply or not deep enough. Checking OAL of brass, plus trimming can prevent this. Anymore, I don't trim handgun brass much , maybe a few .357 and 44 Mag brass if they've been used in hotter loadings that stretch brass. Midrange fps smokeless and blackpowder loadings are easy on brass. There was a day when my revolver loadings were basically hand held howitzer rounds, paid my dues doing that.

[AntiqueSledMan]

Hello Guys,

That's what I figured, but I think some were referring to the Carbide one.
Lee's fault for naming two different dies so closely. Case length is critical for correct operation.
Also have heard some complaints that the crimping band is to wide, causing a very wide crimp.
Very easy to remedy, these dies are very easily modified.
Also about the best way out there to crimp heeled bullets.

AntiqueSledMan.

[Reeferman]

I removed the carbide ring from the LEE FCD dies that I use for cast bullets for 38/357, 44 and 45 Colt. It makes a nice crimp on them. I haven't tried the Lee collet crimp die but have some ordered.
Some like them some hate them.

[Crow Choker]

From what I've always read and understood about Lee's FCD's (taken from their web information and written material) is that the Collet FCD and the Carbide FCD use the same 'Collet' bullet crimping system. The Collet FCD just doesn't have the carbide sizing ring or the Carbide FCD has a sizing ring, which ever way ya want to describe the two.

[Cliff Fendley]

The 44-40 dies are the collet style. For those that are getting "the ring" you probably wouldn't get a proper crimp with a regular roll crimp die because the brass is probably various length. The whole idea of the Lee collet FCD is it doesn't care if the brass is trimmed or not, it is a collet die that squeezes the case so it doesn't crush soft thin brass like 44-40. I don't use the collet FCD for stuff like 45 colt, schofield, etc. because I haven't found the need for it. You guys are overthinking the it and not understanding it's purpose. The collet die is forgiving on case length etc. If people get the ring their brass is too long so if they don't like the look of that they need to blame themselves and not the die. Why is it so hard for people to understand how to use something so simple?

I personally don't want to go through the trouble to trim hundreds of cases for CAS and the collet FCD gets the job done with no crushed cases and failures to feed. I personally don't care if many have the ring at the end because it has never caused any problems with brass. If you throw that die away thinking it ruined your brass then you are just confused and not appreciating the advantages of using the die and in your case may have not needed it in the first place but don't badmouth the product when it was doing just what it was designed to do.

[Abilene]

When I started loading it was 45 Colt and 44 Spcl.  I seated and crimped with the same die (my Lee Turret was the 3 hole).  Ammo was mostly okay but sometimes had problems shaving lead on that stage, and didn't want to bell the brass any more than needed.  So I converted the press to 4 hole and added the FCD to do the crimp.  On .38 I continued to seat and crimp together for years, but a couple of brands of brass, WCC and CBC, were thicker and would not chamber in my oldest Uberti conversions, although they chambered in the new ones.  Anyways, I started last year or two using the FCD on that caliber, and the resizing it does eliminated the problem with that brass.  And finally, on the 32-20 and 44-40, I just used the separate collet die from the beginning so I could crimp after seating.  32-20 brass is vastly different length between certain manufacturers.  In particular, Starling and Winchester is much shorter than R-P.  I set the crimp die for the longer R-P and load smokeless in those, and in the shorter brass I use the same adjustments and load BP.  More of the bullet is sticking out of the case, but who cares?  And then I've always used the FCD in 45acp and never had any ammo problems with the auto-loaders.  45 S&W I still seat and crimp together with no problems.