Using Slings For Position Shooting?

[matt45]

I am hoping this is the proper board for this question.  At what point did people figure out how to use slings to aid in position shooting, and when did the U.S. military start training with the sling?

[Coffinmaker]

This is NOT a real good answer to your question.  It has been a long time since I was in the field being shot at.  HOWEVER:  Nobody I served with over 26 years active used the sling as an aid to accuracy.  Most of the time, the simple expedient was to remove it completely from the rifle.  In an actual firefight, you simply do NOT have time to "Sling-Up". Another problem is the M-16 itself.  If you put tension on the barrel in any direction, it will pull it off it's "zero."

The only place I've seen the sling used as an aid to shooting, has been in a few Military High-power Matches.  Taking time to try and use a sling in a firefight will get you killed.  The ONLY place a rifle sling has a practice use is on the Parade Ground, to "Pass in Review."

[Professor Marvel]

This is NOT a real good answer to your question.  It has been a long time since I was in the field being shot at.  HOWEVER:  Nobody I served with over 26 years active used the sling as an aid to accuracy.  Most of the time, the simple expedient was to remove it completely from the rifle.  In an actual firefight, you simply do NOT have time to "Sling-Up". Another problem is the M-16 itself.  If you put tension on the barrel in any direction, it will pull it off it's "zero."

The only place I've seen the sling used as an aid to shooting, has been in a few Military High-power Matches.  Taking time to try and use a sling in a firefight will get you killed.  The ONLY place a rifle sling has a practice use is on the Parade Ground, to "Pass in Review."

Ah My Good Coffeemaker

I myself have never been shot at, I think....
But if the antagonist was waaaaaaaay out there like 300-400 yards, one would think there might be time to use this method?
ah the "hasty sling"


however, as you point out it would really mess things up with an AR style.....

yhs
prof marvel

[matt45]

I was a serving grunt for 23 years- and you are right, I never used a sling in combat.  The only time I used a sling was @ the KD range.  The question still remains, not the practicality of the technique.  I believe, though, that Sam Woodhouse used a sling when he won the MH @ the Argonne.

[St. George]

The Kerr Sling was adjustable as was the later M1907, but were used for marksmanship - not for combat.

Formal Marksmanship 'training' more or less starts in the 1880s - 'after' the military had enough money to authorize the ammunition - prior to that, some units never fired a shot in their training, simply because the ammunition allocation wasn't there.

Post-1898, the easily-adjustable Kerr 'No-Buckl' sling showed up and some units did have that - most did not - after the Model 1907 sling - still in use today - the various positions were figured out, tested and trained on - but when the rifle was actually needed, there simply wasn't time.

The later cotton M1 sling could be used - and was - but again - not in combat, and for the above reason.

Position shooting is wildly different from combat shooting - time is your enemy, and it takes far too much of it to waste employing what worked for you on the Qualification Range.

In my experience as a career Infantry soldier, the sling was only used as a carrying strap - with most of us just taping the swivels against noise, and leaving it in the Base Camp - if you had your weapon in hand - you could put it to good use quickly.

I suspect that the real question is 'Can I Use It In C&WAS?'

The answer's 'no'.

Scouts Out!

[Niederlander]

There are documented cases in the Pacific in World War 2 where Marines used slings in combat, mostly when they had an opportunity to shoot at Japanese at long range.  I knew an old Marine who used one when he shot a North Korean at about six hundred fifty yards in that conflict, and I believe I read an after action report from Iraq where Marines were observed using slings while engaging Iraqis at longer distances.  They were also observing stuff blowing in the wind to get wind speed.  May not be used often, but it does happen.

[matt45]

I miswrote when I gave Sam Woodfill's name as Woodhouse (too many knocks on the head).  He started his exploit w/ long range fire- knocked out three snipers @ 250 w/ aimed rifle fire, and ended up beating a couple of machine gunners to death with what became a broken pick-axe handle.  Best not to make that guy mad.

[Cap'n Redneck]

I have looked through my copies of Osprey Publishings "Weapons Series" books.
In "The 1903 Springfield Rifle"-book there are no photos of soldiers using the sling for support.
But in "The M1 Garand"-book there are photos on pages 14, 17, 44, 45, 66 and 76. 
These are mostly of soldiers in rifle training + one posed sniper photo with night vision equipment.

From these two sources it looks like the rifle-sling came into use as a shooting-support just prior to WWII.

As an aside I can mention that the Norwegian National Rifle Association did not allow slings to be used in competition until 1950. 

[jthbjr]

First decade of the 20th century. From what I can find in my library. Exactly who thought of it I don't know. There may be some information in my collection of Rifleman magazines going back to the early 20s but wife's sewing room is between me and that part of my library.
Looking at "Modern American Rifles" by Gould published in 1892, there is no mention or illustration of a shooting sling for military or civilian shooting. His instructions are very detailed. The Krag sling was the same as the Trapdoor sling. Just for carrying. Looking at "The Model 1903 Springfield Rifle" by Poyer we see the evolution of the '03 slings. In '03 a strap that had hooks at each end with leather keepers. In '04 a variation for the Krag and the '03. In '06 a variation that was one year. And then the Model 1907 sling that is the shooting sling we all know and love. After 1907 all the variations of '03 and Garand slings are materials or finish. Used up to the 60s. Its the sling you see on commercial rifles in the mid 20th century except sometimes 1" wide instead of 1 1/4". The Model 64 Deluxe came with one from the factory and so did the Model 52 Sporter and Model 70 high grade rifles.
The great promoter of using a shooting sling was Col Townsend Whelen. He was a prolific gun writer in the period between 1900 and the 1950s. He had a great influence on shooting and on the gun manufactures. He was on active duty for almost 40 years. I think he designed the '07 sling but can't find a reference to that fact.
I find that a sling used properly makes the most difference in a sitting position. Off hand its useless for me. I do have one on my long range hunting rifle that I never use now days.
As always I could be wrong.
John, still in the Fort.

[Capt Quirk]

As mentioned, when you are under fire, isnt the same as taking the extra seconds for a precise shot. Shooting at a deer, for example. Snipers at a distance might want the extra steadiness, but I know a lot of hunters that swear by it.

[1961MJS]

As mentioned, when you are under fire, isnt the same as taking the extra seconds for a precise shot. Shooting at a deer, for example. Snipers at a distance might want the extra steadiness, but I know a lot of hunters that swear by it.

Hi, I read most of Peter Hathway Capstick's safari books.  He taught and used the hasty sling hunting everything including lion, elephant, Buffalo and Rhino.  He did however use a shotgun with slugs and #1 buckshot (more weight in lead) for WOUNDED leopards.

Just my $0.02, deer don't shoot back.

[Capt Quirk]

Hi, I read most of Peter Hathway Capstick's safari books.  He taught and used the hasty sling hunting everything including lion, elephant, Buffalo and Rhino.  He did however use a shotgun with slugs and #1 buckshot (more weight in lead) for WOUNDED leopards.

Just my $0.02, deer don't shoot back.

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