Gunbelts- Straight or curved?

Capt Quirk · May 01, 2020, 03:27:03 PM

I have only done a few droploop/buscadaro belts, with varying results. My first one was cut straight. It kept falling around my knees. It was also made from belly leather, and unlined.

My second one was slightly curved, like one of the cheap DeSantes online. It was lined with glazed pigskin. After a few tries, I finally got it to fit the customer...

Got a new customer that wants a droploop for a .44 SBH, 8" bbl, and a .44 SBH with a 10"bbl crossdraw.

This guy is going to be a pita if it is at all wrong, so I want to be doubly sure it fits his short and round body.

I have read arguments for curved, as it fits better, less likely to fall. Others say straight, it is easiest to cut, and should naturally curve fit over time.

Thoughts?

Marshal Will Wingam · May 01, 2020, 03:46:12 PM

That would depend on the person's physique. No buscadero belts work for me because I have narrow hips and no butt to speak of. With one cinched tight, I take a deep breath and the belt is down around my ankles faster than a cat on a gopher. Tapered belts work good for women or men who have a normal body shape where the waist is narrower than the hips. For women with a nice hourglass figure, it helps to accent the taper even more. For people with a barrel body, you need to design it so they can tighten it around their waist to stay in place. Some might need a shoulder strap.

Capt Quirk · May 03, 2020, 08:14:26 PM

And here is another thought-out if I go with a curved belt, I have found two options. First cut the belt on a curve, which is a pain. Or, second, cut it straight, and wet shape it as a curve, which sounds easier. I have not tried that.

With the second method, do I case the leather, shape, then recase for tooling?

Marshal Will Wingam · May 04, 2020, 12:03:57 AM

I've reshaped belts after they're made and they do fine. Starting from scratch with simple border work, I'd stamp it first then put the curve in it before applying any finish. If I was going to do a full decorative belt, I'd put the curve in it prior to doing the tooling.

Capt Quirk · May 04, 2020, 02:58:57 AM

Thanks Will, that helps a lot!

River City John · May 04, 2020, 08:24:12 AM

All of my straight belts gradually reshape themselves to curved anyway, it seems.

RCJ

1961MJS · May 04, 2020, 08:40:53 AM

Hi, how do you measure curved on purpose? Is there a tutorial somewhere?
Later

Marshal Will Wingam · May 04, 2020, 08:55:50 AM

I don't know of any tutorials on how to measure the amount of curve. No two people are the same shape. I just give the belt a bit of curve then wrap it around to see how it is. You can add more curve or take some out if needed. If you're making it for someone who isn't available to do that, close is what you will be looking for. Like John says, the belt will gradually reshape anyway.

Buck Stinson · May 04, 2020, 09:11:23 AM

Just my opinion, but I think you're going to have a major problem cutting this belt on a curve, especially with two holsters. To compound the problem, one holster is a cross draw. You can't cut the belt straight, wet it and bend a curve into it. Sounds good and looks good on paper, but the leather will never hold it's curve. It must be cut in a curve. The early Buscadaro rigs had straight belts and very little drop to the loop the holster hung from. And River City is right about the straight belt forming a slight curve on it's own. I've been a holster maker for 42 years and every time I have to make one of these rigs, I cringe. I don't get many requests for them, but I will make one as a special order, non-returnable. The only exception is when a customer can actually be here in the shop, so I can take the proper measurements.

Capt Quirk · May 04, 2020, 09:26:36 AM

Ok Buck, you seem to be the one to ask. Trying to cut it curved, was really giving me headaches. I was hoping to cut it straight, form it, lay it out on the liner, glue it, trim it, and Bob's your Uncle...

Do you have a simple way to do it curved?

1961MJS · May 04, 2020, 09:59:26 AM

Quote from: Capt Quirk on May 04, 2020, 09:26:36 AM
Ok Buck, you seem to be the one to ask. Trying to cut it curved, was really giving me headaches. I was hoping to cut it straight, form it, lay it out on the liner, glue it, trim it, and Bob's your Uncle...

Do you have a simple way to do it curved?

Boy, I'm glad its not just me. I don't do this for a living, but I'm a bit of a techie so I do measure things. My old gunsmith was appalled that I took a tuned magazine for a 1911, measured the lips and "tuned" another couple to fit that gun. It did work though.

Later

Jeremiah Jones · May 04, 2020, 10:03:42 AM

Quote from: River City John on May 04, 2020, 08:24:12 AM
All of my straight belts gradually reshape themselves to curved anyway, it seems.
RCJ

Same here. Maybe ask the client for an old belt of his that is curved from wear, then use that belt as a template? When I was in the SCA, that is how I made my belts.

Trailrider · May 04, 2020, 11:25:47 AM

Having the customer send an old belt might work. Problem is that if it is a pants belt, it may or may not give you the correct amount of curvature. Also, with the crossdraw holster, a curved belt might not work well. Here's a thought...have the customer get some paper grocery bags and make himself a paper belt the way he thinks he would like it, and send it to you. Tell him to be sure to mark the position of the holsters and the ends of the belts. I would agree with the no return policy on something like this. The other thing I always do is have the customer measure around where he/she will wear the belt, using a dressmakers tape or at least a piece of string.

(In 45 years of professional leather-making (not counting the first one I made for my late section OIC's Buntline special in 1968), I think I've had one request for a curved buscadero rig, and I had the customer available to fit him. Definitely a PITA, and I'm not talking about those animal rights nuts!

Stay well, Pard

Capt Quirk · May 04, 2020, 11:41:17 AM

We measured him out at 46", center to center. I learned the hard way not to trust their pant size. From center to 3:00 is 13", where the drop loop will be. Only an inch, so that there is enough meat to hold strong. The cross draw will be likely 11:00 or so. I plant to line the belt with about 5-6oz vegtan.

My main goal here, is for it to stay on him long enough for it to form to him. It won't do to have it drop around his knees before he finishes paying.

Coffinmaker · May 04, 2020, 05:10:58 PM

I'm not a leather crafter

Didn't stay in a Holliday Inn that I admit to. I have, however had lots and lots of Gun Belts. First a CAVEAT: My Sweetheart has been known to say I have a "Girlie Butt." I have never cared for a Straight cut Gun Belt since I tried my first "contour" cut belt. Fits more comfortably over my hips and stops at my butt. A straight cut "cuts" when drawn up tight. I personally have never had a Gun Belt Grow a "curve" over time. Always stayed straight. I have notice some Gun Belts will shrink over the winter. Strange .... that.

Capt Quirk · May 04, 2020, 06:27:32 PM

Careful there CM, a casual comment like that, and you could go to your grave being known as "Girlie Butt". Just ask my son, Squirrelboy Dumass

Buck Stinson · May 05, 2020, 09:15:40 AM

The best way I've found to cut it on a curve is by drawing it out. When I get my leather shipments from Hermann Oak, they always roll it up in light weight paste board sheets and heavy paper. I save this material for my patterns. I first work up the pattern with the paper and make sure everything is exactly the size and shape I need and then cut a permanent pattern from the paste board sheets. It may take a while, but you can work up your curved belt pattern by either tracing the outline of an existing Buscadaro or drop loop rig or cutting a curve and holding it around your own waist until you get it where you want it. From that point, adding or subtracting to an individual waist size is easy. When you do add or subtract the waist size, make sure to keep in mind that any change in size will also change the position where the holsters hang. Drop loop will have to be moved to match waist size.

Capt Quirk · May 05, 2020, 04:35:35 PM

So, Buck... Give me a f'rinstance. If'n the belt is 3" wide, and 46" long (not even adding on for the extra under the tongue), how much upcurve on the ends? 1" above sea level? 4" above sea level?

Capt Quirk · May 05, 2020, 05:13:46 PM

And just because I like to share, this is the general direction I'm going with the holsters. This is the long one-

1961MJS · April 26, 2021, 09:00:48 PM

Hi
I found this by accident:
https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/95009-cross-draw-western-rig-with-progress-pics/

This guy just cases the leather cartridge belt and puts a slight bend in it.

It ain't exact, but it IS a decent bend.
Later