What has happened to Cowboy Action Shooting ?

[brudford]

 Now that I'am semi-retired and have a few extra bucks  was going to start playing at the Cowboy shooting game . I have not been on this forum for a few years and have noticed that the traffic is way down , some forums with no new posts for months at a time . I realize with the current Covid-19 deal most shoots have been stopped , but is Cowboy Action shooting pretty much dead now ? Thanks

[Abilene]

Dead?  By no means.  But it is no longer growing.  Might be shrinking in some places.  In central Texas the match attendances have been pretty steady the last few years.

[Buffalo Creek Law Dog]

yThe numbers from our club have gone down over the past 1/2 doz years or so.  Some older members have left due to  it getting away from fun cowboy shooting as God intended, to IPSIC in cowboy boots. Last year I measured the target distance of 3 stages picked at random and the rifle and pistol targets were well short of the SASS minimum.  No fun shooting at targets that you can hit by spitting on them.  Unfortunately, it has become a gamer's game.  I actually look forward more to the long range rifle side matches, mainly because you have to actually aim at the target.

[brudford]

 So the gamers have ruined the sport ? Why I ask is that I used to shoot competitive Trap Shooting , we called the Gamers Sandbaggers ! Anytime there was a big money shoot theses guys would come out of the woodwork like the little roaches , you never would see them shoot other than for the big money . The A in ATA stands for amateur not pro. Theses guys would not miss . I'am not just going to hand over my money to them, so now I just shoot Trap for fun at our local shoots .

[Coffinmaker]

   Sorry, but I take some exception.  First things first though.  The original question.  SASS & CAS is not "growing."  It is slowly dyeing.  The vast number of CAS players are aging.  The major demographic is probably 60+ and there are not enough young people entering the "game" to keep it alive.  There are no more Saturday Matinees with cowboy stars, no more TV Westerns and very few Western movies being made.  So the game struggles   

   No, the "gamers" have not ruined the "sport."  CAS is NOT a sport by any stretch of the imagination.  Just look at the Loading Table.  Bunch of well seasoned fat guys and their spouses lining up.  Not an athlete among em.  It's a GAME.  Plane and simple.  CAS is a shooting GAME.  The vast majority of CAS players have desired layouts that support more CLANG for the BANG.  This Game is not and never was a precision target shooting game.  If you want precision target shooting, go play with Bench Rest shooters.  CAS has evolved to support targets anyone can hit and hit shooting quickly.  Blaming "Gamers" is a disservice.  Especially since you have to define "Gamers."  The entire CAS population with the exception of NCOWS play the game with modified equipment.  Everything is modified.  If you want to re-inact, fine.  Go re-inact with the re-inactors or go play with NCOWS.  If your going to bitch about SASS and CAS, I would suggest the sheet music to "Down By the River Alone.

Starting your return to the game by badmouthing the way it is played is not going to win friends nor influence people.

[brudford]

 Two questions , first are you a gamer ? Second would a gamer use black powder loads for the fun and purity of the shoots? Back in the day I shot what was called practical shooting  which Jeff Cooper helped define .This sport evolved into IPSC with modified equipment that you speak of in the Cowboy action shoots . By that very precise statement , " modified " means the gamers have changed your sport by using modified equipment making themselves better shots than they really are in order to win money or trophies , and not for the better . I disagree with your  premise and agree with the second poster that gamers have influenced the Cowboy shoots and in a negative way . This type of shooter ( gamer ) turns alot of shooters away . Maybe that is part of the reason Cowboy shooting is in decline , no one ever said, that was the only reason for the decline .

[Coffinmaker]

  Congratulations Bub   

I am absolutely a "Gamer."  I play the CAS Game.  I shoot nothing but BlackPowder and Subs in ALL of my guns.  Just for the fun of it, I shoot a Category called Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter, only I shoot with Percussion Guns.  I also build custom "SNUBBIE" Cap Guns.  My Shotguns are Hammer Doubles in which I shoot nothing but ALL BRASS hulls.  I shoot 4, yes that FOUR 1860 rifles in .45 Colt, in four different barrel lengths.  Whatcha got to match that "sport."

I also started in the Shooting "games" with IPSC.  I shot a bog stock AMT Hardballer.  I continued in that game until the Super modified guns drove me out.  Not the modifications, the Cost.  four grand for a "Practical" pistol with no use except for competition, and snotty players whom wouldn't give you the time of day.

And just so you can get a bit better handle on it.  The "Gamers" as you describe, are everybody in the game today.  Look at the equipment, the guns, the improvements in the guns, everything driven toward making the equipment more user friendly.  Understand, the really "FAST" "GAMERS" will win against the rest of us mere mortals even if they run bone stock equipment.

Your description of "your sport" rather than "our sport" and your deriding of how the game has evolved and argumentative attitude pretty much puts you in the category of TROLL.  If the only reason you came here to hang out was to TROLL for arguments, perhaps "your" in the wrong place.

[brudford]

 As I suspected , only a true gamer / sandbagger would take offense to my comments . Gamers like you can suck the fun right out of any activity . You state that Cowboy shooting is in decline due to the aging out of it's core group of shooters . You are either part of the solution or part of the problem my friend .

[Abilene]

Brudford, pay no attention to Coffinmaker.  He can get crotchety.  Although some of what he says is true, all the same.  Yes, it mostly is the age thing that is causing the decline (early I said it wasn't dead.  No, but slowly declining for sure).  The cost to play doesn't help.  As far as gamers and targets being close enough to spit at, etc., well there is disagreement on that all the time.  Not all matches have close targets and "how fast can you shoot that gun", but a lot have.  Some folks bitch about that change.  But a lot of other folks love it.  Can't please everybody.  I've seen a lot of change in 20 years, and most would NOT call me a gamer but I do still love the game.  Close or far, shooting is fun and the folks are mostly great.  I have a lot of guns to play with, and only one has a short stroke.  My guns do all have lighter springs, and a couple have had action jobs.  My leather and dress is fairly traditional.  There's a fair number of folks like me.  When I shoot BP in .44's or .45's I do download somewhat with some filler, but that's for reasons other than trying to beat the other BP guys.  That has always been one of the best things about CAS, everybody can play their own game. 

[Major 2]

"...part of the reason Cowboy shooting is in decline , no one ever said, that was the only reason for the decline . "

My 2 cents  .... the "Gamers" as you define them then would be  Race gun toting , Light load shooting,  Close targeting , high practicing , win at any cost players at events.

I would think the percentage of these as "defined" is a lot lower than the average JOE involved in CAS.

However, the Highest percentage  of  JOE's  in CAS are in their 60's and Seventies.

I don't see the decline of CAS as a " Gamer " issue , I see it as age,  The hobby is way past its prime,  not yet on life support but terminal in 10-15 years tops .

[Coffinmaker]

OK Boys and Girls.  DON'T.    FEED.    THE.    TROLL.

[Rye Miles]

  Congratulations Bub   

I am absolutely a "Gamer."  I play the CAS Game.  I shoot nothing but BlackPowder and Subs in ALL of my guns.  Just for the fun of it, I shoot a Category called Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter, only I shoot with Percussion Guns.  I also build custom "SNUBBIE" Cap Guns.  My Shotguns are Hammer Doubles in which I shoot nothing but ALL BRASS hulls.  I shoot 4, yes that FOUR 1860 rifles in .45 Colt, in four different barrel lengths.  Whatcha got to match that "sport."

I also started in the Shooting "games" with IPSC.  I shot a bog stock AMT Hardballer.  I continued in that game until the Super modified guns drove me out.  Not the modifications, the Cost.  four grand for a "Practical" pistol with no use except for competition, and snotty players whom wouldn't give you the time of day. And just so you can get a bit better handle on it.  The "Gamers" as you describe, are everybody in the game today.  Look at the equipment, the guns, the improvements in the guns, everything driven toward making the equipment more user friendly.  Understand, the really "FAST" "GAMERS" will win against the rest of us mere mortals even if they run bone stock equipment.

Your description of "your sport" rather than "our sport" and your deriding of how the game has evolved and argumentative attitude pretty much puts you in the category of TROLL.  If the only reason you came here to hang out was to TROLL for arguments, perhaps "your" in the wrong place.

I can attest to the fact that Mr. Coffinmaker enjoys this game as much as anyone! He truly has lots of fun shooting! He is proof you don't have to be overall #1 to enjoy this game.

I try and compete in my catgeory, Senior Duelist, I know I'll never be #1 overall but I still have a blast when I go to a cowboy shoot. I hope this Covid-19 crap doesn't ruin it for us!

[Jeremiah Jones]

1.  We got old.
2.  Society lost interest in Western TV shows.
3.  Guns are evil and are deadly killing machines.
4.  Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy.

I'm guessing we have 10 more years at the best.

[1961MJS]

Hi

What's killing both cowboy shooting, reenacting, and other sports is the expense.  The kids don't make as much money at younger ages as us boomers did.  Heck 2 single actions $350 MINIMUM each, Lever action $500 MINIMUM, and shotgun $500 minimum.  $1700 to start without ammo.  Cowboy hats etc.  A friends wife worked as a butcher for $15.00 an hour before 1985.  That's about what they make now.

Practical $500 for the Glock, $250 for the belt so $750 less than half the cost.  9mm is much less expensive than 38 special.

Later

[greyhawk]

I can attest to the fact that Mr. Coffinmaker enjoys this game as much as anyone! He truly has lots of fun shooting! He is proof you don't have to be overall #1 to enjoy this game.

I try and compete in my catgeory, Senior Duelist, I know I'll never be #1 overall but I still have a blast when I go to a cowboy shoot. I hope this Covid-19 crap doesn't ruin it for us!

I never met Coffinmaker - unlikely we will meet - but we've had a bit of fun here on the forum
He's a gamer alright  - handicaps hisself with capguns up against the cartridge blokes - thats what a gamer would do to get an edge  right?
A man after me own heart - I was a serious muzzleloader shooter for a while - used to "handicap" meself with CVA's up against the blokes with swamped Getz barrels in handbuilt guns - I did ok too

Early days I almost beat one of the top shots in a sitting event (pulled the last shot and got 2nd on a countback after mates got me excited telling me I was gonna win) the other bloke congratulated me, first time we met, and we got talking later - kindred spirits - both been messing round with cowboy guns and horses since we were young - a few beers and there developed a dispute with some of his clubmates - allegations of cheating - he stood tall and threw the green river knife down on the table in front of them - (me new to the game - took me half an hour to figure out the full significance of that) - anyway outside in the night air and I talk to this guy to cool him down - after a bit he said
"they just don't get it" stuck his thumb in his own chest "I dont give a s-hoot about them - this is the bloke I have to beat"   
the sandbaggers in the trap game dont get it and I reckon our mate that started this thread dont get it

there is no level playing field - never was - never will be - if the game changed to where bog standard factory guns and ammo were issued randomly to shooters on match day you would still find the same pool of competitors circling for top spot and the same group at the bottom - some individuals are better at some things than others - thats life - enjoy it while you still can .

[Coffinmaker]

Greyhawk:  HEAR HEAR!!

[Major 2]

well said Sir....

I have had the pleasure of Coffinmaker's  company , I'm  better for it