reproduction cap and ball revolver frames

THUMB BUTTE BILL · March 21, 2020, 10:34:55 AM

Hello everyone. After a very long time i have decided to get back into the sport of black powder shooting. I have a question and Iam hoping it can be answered here. When it comes to the 1851 navy the 1861 navy and the 1860 army colt replicas from Uberti or Pietta are they using the same frame. I realize some are brass some are steel some heat treated. i was wondering if they are all the same size. Thanks in advance for your help.

Coffinmaker · March 21, 2020, 10:54:10 AM

The short answer is "Sort Of." The dimensions of Pietta and Uberti are NOT the same even though they appear to be so. External parts are NOT interchangeable between Pietta and Uberti.

The original sample example by Sam'l Colt, built the 1851, 1861 and 1860 all on the 1851 dimensions. Uberti and Pietta do the same. Uberti guns however, do not have the same degree of CNC machining Pietta does. Cross-fitting of major assemblies requires mucho fitting with Uberti as do the parts in the lock-works.

Pietta guns, like Colt, the guns are all built on the basic 1851 frame. ALL of the lock-work parts are the same and major subassemblies will cross-fit (guns of recent manufacture). The only heat treated guns are by Pietta and are superbly made guns. Generally speaking, we here, whom subsist on BP, do not recommend Brass Frames except as occasional toys.

Welcome back to the fold.

THUMB BUTTE BILL · March 21, 2020, 11:13:47 AM

thanks for all the great info. staying within the same brand i am trying to decide which gun to start back with. If 1860 army and 1861 navy are the same dimensions I realize the 1860 cylinder is rebated. I think the Navy may work out, cost wise. less powder and smaller ammo.

Coffinmaker · March 21, 2020, 02:51:16 PM

T B BILL,

You didn't mention which manufacturer was your "same" brand to stay within. I am personally Jaundiced toward Uberti. Good looking guns but Uberti hasn't corrected their MAJOR flaw even though it has been a subject of discussion for decades. Uberti take a bundle more work to make them CAS ready than do Pietta. Pietta are much much much closer right out of the box.

I don't know if it is a consideration, but Pietta also offer you much wider choice of Barrel configuration as well as barrel length. Pietta build a bunch of really fun to play with "never never" guns. Well worth a good peruse at EMF.

Dick Dastardly · March 21, 2020, 03:03:20 PM

My go to guns for Cowboy Action shooting are a brace of Pietta 1860s with Kirst Konverter cylinders and ejection assemblies. I load and shoot Cowboy 45 Special ammo in them. The Kirst cylinders are very well made and are drop in fit. The ejector assemblies are a very worthwhile addition. The cylinders have gated extraction/loading ports. Some frame modification is needed but easily done with a dremel type tool.

DD-MDA

Coffinmaker · March 21, 2020, 09:08:42 PM

HA!!

And if you go with straight Cap Guns, set 'em up to utilize a Cylinder Loading Stand. The Rolls Royce of Cylinder Stands is Dick Dastardly's Tower of Power. YES!! This is a shameless PLUG for The Tower of Power!!!

Gabriel Law · March 22, 2020, 05:32:28 PM

I have a matched brace of Pietta 51's and bought the TOP from DD. Excellent tool. When I bought my revolvers, I also bought a pair of extra cylinders, and if I hadn't stamped them each with a number, I wouldn't know which ones were the originals. They all work flawlessly in both guns.

Oldgold · May 24, 2020, 07:07:19 AM

Anyone know who made the Cimarron brand frame? Came into possession of one. Future project is to replace a brass frame 1860 army if possible.

Abilene · May 24, 2020, 07:41:34 AM

Cimarron percussion guns have been made by Uberti for a long time. Uberti does not make a brass frame. An Uberti frame will be unlikely to fit the same.

Coffinmaker · May 24, 2020, 09:55:49 AM

PLUS ONE too Abilene

Best of my Knowledge, Cimarron doesn't retail Pietta Percussion guns. Contrary to popular belief, Uberti, did at one time make a Brass Frame 1851. Long Long Time ago. Regardless ....

Pietta Guns (your Brass Frame gun) and Uberti guns are incompatible. NONE of the parts interchange. A cautionary: Pietta made some changes in their guns. Several years ago, Pietta standardized and went to serious CNC production. Earlier Pietta build Pietta gun parts may NOT interchange with more recent build guns. Along with that, you may well find, watching the not uncommon "sales" thru Dixie, Midway, Cabellas (?), EMF, you may well find buying a new steel frame gun to be much cheaper.

Professor Marvel · May 24, 2020, 03:36:08 PM

Greetyings my good Bill

my first three choices ( beacuse I am cheap ™ , but not insane) are
1) used Belgian Colt if you can find one.
2) Pietta used post CNC
3) Pietta new in the box

as always YMMV ™

yhs ™
prof mumbles ™

Long Johns Wolf · May 25, 2020, 02:55:53 AM

My dear Professore, you are a wise man (#1): there is currently a Centaure over at GB for sale.
It is a Regular New Model Army (RNMA) 2nd variation/1st sub-variation from ca. 1963, i.e. the variant with the rare Centaure proprieatary naval engagement scene.
Check "Centennial Army"
Long Johns Wolf

Coffinmaker · May 25, 2020, 12:29:18 PM

Odd Man Out

I am not a fan of Pre Owned Iron. Sorry. I've found folks have a habit of selling their prized Iron for nefarious reasons. Normally, they have, in misguided efforts of improvements, screwed it up. I have actually lost count of the number of guns that walked into my shop in a Bag or Box or even carefully wrapped. The only solution was to pull the screw, shake over the trash can and start over. In many instances, the entire item was trash. If you cannot stand face to face with the seller, Fondle the treasure and perhaps even fire it .... RUN do not walk AWAY.

My recommendation is strongly bent toward a brandy new Pietta sourced at the bestest sale price to be found (on your shopping day). Not, you understand, that I am all that Opinionated.

Professor Marvel · May 25, 2020, 04:25:59 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on May 25, 2020, 12:29:18 PM
Odd Man Out

I am not a fan of Pre Owned Iron. Sorry. I've found folks have a habit of selling their prized Iron for nefarious reasons. Normally, they have, in misguided efforts of improvements, screwed it up. I have actually lost count of the number of guns that walked into my shop in a Bag or Box or even carefully wrapped. The only solution was to pull the screw, shake over the trash can and start over. In many instances, the entire item was trash. If you cannot stand face to face with the seller, Fondle the treasure and perhaps even fire it .... RUN do not walk AWAY.

My recommendation is strongly bent toward a brandy new Pietta sourced at the bestest sale price to be found (on your shopping day). Not, you understand, that I am all that Opinionated.

Ah My Dear Coffin

These days, that is a wise practice. I have been lucky but have heard of too many bad transactions from others.
hands on, these days.

yhs
prof getting jaded

45 Dragoon · May 25, 2020, 10:09:58 PM

Have to agree with CM. New guns are MUCH easier to work on than those with half a million miles on them!! In fact I'm gonna be selling new in the box already tuned cap guns . . . in June or early July. Definitely make life easier for me with a "no wait" time for the customer!! Everybody wins!!

Mike

Professor Marvel · May 25, 2020, 10:58:15 PM

Quote from: Long Johns Wolf on May 25, 2020, 02:55:53 AM
My dear Professore, you are a wise man (#1): there is currently a Centaure over at GB for sale.
It is a Regular New Model Army (RNMA) 2nd variation/1st sub-variation from ca. 1963, i.e. the variant with the rare Centaure proprieatary naval engagement scene.
Check "Centennial Army"
Long Johns Wolf

Thanks Herr Wolf!
I am keeoping my eye on that.... it will probably get priced out of sight real soon.

yhs
prof marvel