Trousers, pre-1875

[St. George]

Ask all the questions you want - and I'll try my best to help.

Remember - the question you ask is also helping someone who was sitting there and wondering the same thing but was afraid to ask.

As you build your Impression - go through the various back pages as 'archives' and some of your questions may already've been answered.

Good Luck,

Scouts Out!

[Delmonico]

I have a little example I do often at work concering pistol carry, I often have a 58 Reington in a cross draw Slim Jim that is a good examble of what "Packing Iron" calls "Bunk House" rigs.  Folks are surprised to see a cross draw and ask about it.  I explain how when one is right handed and doing real work it is the only practical way to carry on.  I then tell them this is most likely the second most common way to carry on.  When they ask the most common, I take it off, roll up the belt and say, "Like this in either the chuckwagon or saddle bags.

Back on the studio photos of cowboys and side arms, look at how often you see cowboys in photos with the same background carrying the same rig.  Photographers used probs back then also.

As St. George said, don't be afraid to ask, research is what we love to do.

[J.D. Yellowhammer]

Thanks for the question encouragement.  The thing that draws me into the sport is the research and re-creation of actual history.  I promise, though, I try to do my own research first before asking.

Do you have a photo of your cross-draw setup?  Would it be on the left side, straight up, butt backward (facing the front)?  In other words, just pulling the rig around your body could accomplish it.  I have seen photos in which the bullet holders on belts are in front, which makes a lot more sense to me.

[Delmonico]

We have a new digatal camera and when my wife gives it up from taking Granddaughter pictures I'll learn how to use it.  But yes it it just a right hand straight draw pushed over.  The slanted crossdraws like you see in Cas Shooting are I believe a new invention.

[DArchangel]

Also remember, colts biggest seller, in this time frame, was it .32 cal. 1849 pocket and its conversions.

[Mogorilla]

I would add to this somewhat hijacked thread that us Missouri guerrillas were known to carry many pistolas, but they did let the horse do most of the carrying.   We are also talking percussion revolvers and the last thing you want to do with one of those is reload under fire.  Bloody Bill Anderson was said to carry 7 or 8 colts in a bag from his pommel and 2 on his person.   I will dig around some of my books and see if I can come up with a multiple pistol carry that does not seemed fully staged.

[Boot]

If you get a copy of "The West, An Illustrated History," you can see many casual photos of frontier people of all types, colors, nationalities, etc.  It has gold miners, cowboys, Native Americans, buffallo soldiers and so on.  Many of the photos were taken in the field.  Most are tintypes and ambrotypes, so they were cheaper to produce, making them available to average folk.

Jefferson

Hello Jefferson,
                     I'd be interested in getting a copy of this book, who is the author ?

Thanks.
Boot.

[Deadeye Don]

JD,  I cant get your links to work.

[ColonelFlashman]

Thanks for the question encouragement.  The thing that draws me into the sport is the research and re-creation of actual history.  I promise, though, I try to do my own research first before asking.

Do you have a photo of your cross-draw setup?  Would it be on the left side, straight up, butt backward (facing the front)?  In other words, just pulling the rig around your body could accomplish it.  I have seen photos in which the bullet holders on belts are in front, which makes a lot more sense to me.

How's this for one. Merwin, Hulbert & Co. 3rd Model Frontier(birds head butt) in my R. hand holster & M,H&Co. 3rd Model Army(square Butt) in my L. hand holster. And worn in this fashion, one is able to either Cross Draw or Reverse Draw one pistoles.

[Curley Cole]

Colonel

How have you been? Haven't heard from you in sometime...When Old Top and I were "trying on hats" we thought of you with this one...wonder why...anyways hope you are doing well..

About St G's comments about the nuns and right hand teaching, I was a victim of that in th e'50's and messed me up for years. I now shoot left handed. Just had a Double cross draw rig made for me by Red Dog Leather. Holster looks like the one on the left side of inside cover of Packin Iron. Made for 7 1/2 Remmies. Belt is sort of a Fair weather Christian rig, (had the idea before I saw 3:10 to Yuma. Gonna go with a Scout outfit so I can appropriately hang with Old Top and Cole Harbour (who is a sarge in cavalry)

Good to hear form you sir

Curley Cole

[Curley Cole]

Here is a shot of the crossdraw rig, I know the double holsters aren't appropriate, but I always thought it was just a cool look. Sorta from the Wild Bill thing...

Enjoying the comments here...
thank you all

Curley

[Fox Creek Kid]

I am reminded of the old line "does wearing that helmet make you pith a lot?" 

[ColonelFlashman]

C.C.

Good to see a post from you as well.
Doing as well as can be expected from everything that has happened las t year on top of everything else from previously.
It's been rather tight on the Rhino side so much so as to keep my from most shoots unfortunately because of our first homes Mortgage payments are rather steep.
Hope to see y'all soonest.

Cheers
Flashy

[ColonelFlashman]

I am reminded of the old line "does wearing that helmet make you pith a lot?" 

Don't you mean "Pithy" as in inteligent? 

[Boot]

As for pattern for trousers from the civil war to 1875 you'd be well advised to study Confederate trousers as these were the same patterns as in use with civilians during this time.
They come with varrying styles of front pockets, with mule ears or straight side seams, I've not seen any trousers from this period with rear pockets. They are usually fitted with suspender buttons although rarely used.

Federal trousers are based on an earlier 1850s pattern, which was old fashioned by then.

Wool was far more common than cotton during this period, but it did come in varying weights and doesn't have to be the coarse heavy stuff.
Linen was also used for summer wear and corduroy was very popular too.
If you're looking for a period impression then steer clear of Wah all together.

I have at theory that Braces,Suspenders orGallowses (all period terms) were not popular with the laboring classes.
They are not conducive to physical labour, they are restricting, keep in body heat and chafe.
From the numerous pictures from the Gold fields hardly any feature them.
I do think they were common with the buissness classes however as they help to maintain a smart appearence when worn under a vest.

Boot.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Good points.

I don't presume to know that much about fashion, (then OR now  ) but I have heard that wool WAS the predominate material used.  I had thought - until I got looking into authentic men's wear, that corduroy was a newer style fabric, but it turns out to be pretty old.  I think it was the wide cord, not the thin type - wale, whale or something like that is the correct term.

There's lots of controversy (of OPINION, not necessarily fact  ) that all that wool must have led to some severely uncomfortable and over-heated folks, but it just ain't so.  First of all, if that's ALL you wear, your body will get used to it.  Secondly, since wool is (can be made into) practically a "wonder fabric" with great natural properties, it can actually help keep you cooler.  Problem is, we're simply not accustomed to it (generally) and us "modern" types have trouble with it.  In my own case, I found out that I'm allergic to wool!  And I didn't know it until I was issued my wool blankets and long-johns in the Army - back during the "great freeze" in Jan. 1978!     

But back to trowsers. 

[Boot]

I'm not sure of all the ins and outs of corduroy, but certainly in the years following the civil war narrow wale was available and common.
Wool has many great properties that have been forgot or ignored over time.
Beng a natural fibre it allows the body to breath and does not trap in persperation, it also has the ability to give warmth even when wet unlike cotton.
For those over sensitive a cotton lining or long under draws may be advisable, but some fine grade wools are quite comfortable.

Boot.

[Dr. Bob]

Boot,

I have a friend [Winepeg, Manitoba, Canada] who is a clothing perveyor [mostly early 19th Century] who has seen late 18th Century mens breeches made in a narrow wale corduroy in a collection in England. [As opposed to Scotland or Wales or North Ireland ]  Many say that only wide wale was available, but I have to agree with you that the narrow wale was also available.

[Boot]

Thanks Dr Bob, it's always nice to have someone agree with me, it doesn't happen that often.

Who knows what they might where in Scotland, Wales or Ireland.

From what I've seen the narrow wale seems more common during our era than the wide, but as I said earlier, I'm not a corduroy expert.

Boot.

[ColonelFlashman]

Origin: 1780; perh. cord (cf. cords) + duroy, deroy (now obs.) a woolen fabric originating in W England; later taken as F cord du roy the king's cords, though the fabric had no connection with France. Applied in U.S. to a road of logs across swampy ground (1822).

Wide Wale Corduroy was the predominate version of this faberic, as the Pin Wale as we know it today, was to expensive to manufacture as Technology had not caught up w/ the Inventors & their Pantents yet.

There was a Narrower Corduroy out of England, it's called Bedford Cord & is closer to a Medium Wale, but it's Still not the same as what we would call Pin Wale Cord today, plus it's made out of thick Moulton Wool & not Cotton.