I am as fickle as a Junior High girl...

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Decided on going back to a 1858 Pietta/Kirst .45 conversion to pair with my Pietta/Kirst Saber River .45 1860.  My problem is that I love cartridge conversions,,,,especially ones I create myself!

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I'm with you regarding cartridge conversions. There's nothing quite like them. Of course they are based on designs that were outstanding in their time.

[Coffinmaker]

      But   But   But ... TL!!  What about the "Heal base Bullet" project??  Your gonna have Heal Base bullets up the Wazoo and nothing to shoot em out of 

.45 Konversions bis Geshund Ya!!   

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Ah Ha, Coffin Ol' Buddy, the .38 Heel Base project is still alive and well.  The 7.5" 1851 has been Konverted, but due to a successful sale on VTI's part, they are out of stock! So the 4" with the birds head grip awaits conversion before I venture further.

I am doing an 8" 1858, and using one of my modified ejector rods.  EMF had a great sale on Pietta 1858s for $234!!!!  I just could not resist.  They are the source on my Pietta 1860 with faux-ivory grips that is going to be my 1860 Saber River.  I tried to love the 5" Schofield I got back, but it was just not right for an 1860 Henry toter with an 1860 conversion.  Therefore I grabbed the sale 1858.

[Hoof Hearted]

This is quite the quandary .......
The sales of 38 conversions is almost at a standstill hence the blow out prices on them.
Tuolumne here is trying to help that as many have before by stimulating interest but can?t due to the lack of interest and the lack of production.
Now Kirst has to decide if they are going to invest the thousands of dollars necessary in order to make another hundred and the cycle continues.....

[Tuolumne Lawman]

The lack of interest is why I approached Jeff Hoffman, president of Black Hills.  The simple answer is affordable hollow base 150 grain soft lead round nose like the original 1892 Army loading discontinued in the 50s and 60s.  Jeff likes the idea, and Bear creek bullets likes the idea enough to help us develop the bullet. 

Granted, Bernie's Old West Bullet Moulds crimp die make loading heel base almost as easy as inside lubed, but that is only for people who reload.  The 150 grain RNHB bullet would replace Black Hills current 38 Long Colt, as it could be used by current .357" bore users and .375" bore 1851 converted users.

If the change to RNHB happens, it will breathe new life in .38 conversions.

[Coffinmaker]

  HH and TL   

What a GROAN!!  I've been a "Super Fan" of conversion guns since about forever.  Lost my collective butt when ASM guns went inna toilette.  I built a number of .38 conversions for customers as well as for myself.  The big bugaboo has always been the 375 bore of actual .36 Percussion Guns.  Most whom approached me for conversions were leery of the bore/bullet mismatch and didn't want to play with hollow base wadcutters.  Ergo, the hot ticket for a .38 conversion became the Uberti R/M conversions which, of course, have .357 bores.

I'd like to see this project succeed.  I could be coerced to build another pair of .38s just for me.  My current '51 conversions are running R & D cylinders.  Just not the same as a Gated. 

[Major 2]

another could be another customer for Black hills if'n it came to fruitarian...

Currently I have stash of loaded heel base rounds  and another stash of hollow base wadcutters awaiting loading  for Dexter to digest

[Hoof Hearted]

Just as a note here for all concerned:

Hollow base wad cutter 38 Special ammunition is readily available.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Yep. Winchester uses soft lead and Black Hills use soft lead. I had some Remington that were hard. I have some Black Hills 148 HBWC Bullets loaded 1/4 inch out in .38 long Colt cases to approximate 38 special case capacity. First test they worked great in the 1851.  Not going to do a full test until I convert the 4 inch 1851. 

[Coffinmaker]

Hey Gary 

YessireeBob!!  Hollow Base Wad Cutters are readily available.  I run them in my '51 Navy conversions with 375 barrels.  Accuracy is very good.

And, at CAS distance I also shoot plain old 125Gr Truncated Cone bullets and ring the steel with great regularity.  They really don't wander much in 7 yards.

My other favorite when running the '51s as Cap Guns is the EPP-UG-36 cast bullet.  Super accurate and rings the steel like a 38.  Sweet.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!Was cutting the Kirst gated .45 Konverter loading channel in the 1858 I got from EMF on sale ($234!) when the 60 grit drum jumped from the channel and hit the frame!  I had a layer of Gorrila Tape on it, but still bit through in a 1/8" by 1/16" patch!!!  DANG. buffing it down smooth with 400 emory and try cold blue.  Works, sort of.... I'll work on it some more.

Pics to come.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Bum deal. I'll remember to put a double layer on if I do another one.

I had to polish one out myself a few years back. It really isn't very noticeable.

[Professor Marvel]

AAARRRGGGHHHH!!!!Was cutting the Kirst gated .45 Konverter loading channel in the 1858 I got from EMF on sale ($234!) when the 60 grit drum jumped from the channel and hit the frame!  I had a layer of Gorrila Tape on it, but still bit through in a 1/8" by 1/16" patch!!!  DANG. buffing it down smooth with 400 emory and try cold blue.  Works, sort of.... I'll work on it some more.

Pics to come.

Sorry to hear that TL
that's why I heavily advocate building a litle wood-and-hinge jig to hold the dremel. More control, less cussin'

If you decide to keep this set forever, you can eliminate the "knuckle bang" by dremelling about 1/8" or so from the inside of of the gripframe.
the pietas have plenty of steel there.

yhs
prof marvel

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Here's my pair of conversions to go with my 1860 Henry:  Pietta/Kirst 1858 .45 conversion and Pietta/Kirst 1860 Saber River .45 conversion.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Beautiful match pistols. That's a matched pair. Well, at least they both have brass trigger guards. 

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Thank you!  I am a huge fan of conversion revolvers, and a huge fan of Walt Kirst's Konverters.  The 1858 Konverters are drop in, but the 1860 took some timing work by me.  Both are slick.  The hand engraving on the Saber River is awesome.  The light tan grip on the 1860 is really sweet also.  I have a matching grip from the same company coming for the 1858.   

Having converted them from percussion revolvers myself, I have far more attachment than a factory conversion.  They are a perfect pair to go with my HRA 1860 Henry in .44 WCF.  Perfect armory for an 1870 lawman.

I use .45 Schofield cases with either a 200 grain bullet, over 5.5 grains of Trail Boss.  I used to use 6.0 grains, but it was too stiff in a knuckle knocking Remington!  With a 230 grain bullet, I use 5.0 even.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

+1 to Walt's Konverters and conversions in general. There's nothing quite like them.

[Navy Six]

My only issue with the commercial 38 hollow base wadcutters(bullets only, not factory cartridges) is the "lube" they are coated with, especially the Hornadys. It is a sticky mess. I used Kirst cylinders in a pair of Uberti London Navies. These two guns used to shoot all day long with a Rapine hollow base mold and Goex 3F and were very accurate. I got tired of the slow production of a single cavity mold and went to commercial hollow base wadcutters. Now the guns won't make three stages at a Cowboy shoot without attention. Plus the cleanup is now a hard, nasty fouling at the end of a match. I feel some of this is due to the chamber mouth dimension of the Kirst cylinders which are big enough to allow .375 heel bullets and are allowing more blowby to mix with the nasty "lube". The difference was quite noticeable. I actually tried cleaning off that "lube" ahead of time with many different chemical concoctions but nothing would cut it. Finally tried an Accurate Molds 120 gr heel based bullet along with The Old West Molds crimping die and now much happier with the results.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Here are the Kirst Konverted 1858 conversion, along with the 1860 Kirst Saber River converion.  Both now with matching faux ivory grips.