1860 Richards Transition Question

[Abilene]

Abilene

Atz a really nice conversion, even if it is all scratched Up (Grins).  Ron Snover was a class Gunplumber and a good friend of mine.  He was smart enough to retire before I did.  Building his conversion on aN R/M Frame and Barrel eased a couple of small problems relating to parts that weren't available 20 or so years ago.

Appears it was about to go into someone's Sale Display Cabinet??

The display case was Texas Jack's at Mule Camp.  Ron brought the gun to show it off.

[Crow Choker]

Coffinmaker, it's marked 44 Colt. It's one of the early imports that were chambered in 44 Special but marked 44 Colt. I've had it for nearly 20 years now.

Vaqueros1876: Is your Uberti stamped with Cimarron's name on the barrel? Wondering as my first Uberti cartridge revolver was a Cimarron 71-72' Open Top chambered in 44 Spec bought in late 2007 but stamped 44 Colt. Wanted 44 Spec but in talking with Cimarron rep he advised the current Ubeti Colt Open Tops and conversions chambered in 44 Spec but stamped 44 Colt were done that way as they had alot of feedback from customers wanting 44 Spec chambered Colts but didn't want a cartridge stamping on them of a cartridge that wasn't introduced until after 1900. Just more of that 'Period Correct' BS IMO.

Anyway buy the time I bought a Uberti Richards II from Cimarron in late 2008 in 44 Spec, that situation  of stamping a 44 Spec with 44 Colt had ceased. Cimarron rep advised me it lead to to much confusion. Not sure what year that started and if it was done for other importers. I don't believe Taylors was even offering an Open Top or any Colt conversions in 2007, may have just been a Cimarron thing.

Started out with the intention of loading 44 Colt rounds only with black powder and 44 Spec with smokeless, sort of a way to prevent cartridge confusion. Had a 66 Yellowboy rifle in 44 Spec also. Since 2010 or so all I shoot through my current stable of the Open Top, the Richards II, and a Richard Mason conversion (all 44 Spec) are FF Black and 200 grain Mav Dutchman's. Have another RM conversion in 38 Spec that gets black and a 38 caliber Snakebite bullet. The 44 Spec 66 Yellow boy just gets 44 Colts loaded with FF black and the Mav Dutch bullet also. No problem with cycling the rounds.

[Coffinmaker]

  VAQUEROS

OH NO MR. BILL!!  Holy Cow.  Atz just almost perfect or, actually is PERFECT.  Colt never converted the 1860 to .45 Colt.  The 1860s were all converted to 44 Colt or in some cases, 38 Long Colt.  Ergo, you converting yours to a Type 1 will be super close except for the overall size of the gun.  Most excellent indeede.  I will be most interested in following your progress!!   

My current project is converting a pair of Pietta 1851 .45 Marshall (never never) series guns from R&D 2 piece cylinders to Kirst Konverters.  I've gotten tired of constantly taking 'em apart every CAS stage to reload.  'Mother really fun project you betcha!!    

[Coffinmaker]

  Crow Choker

Initially, the 71/72 Open Top was a Cimarron Exclusive.  Then Cimarron and Uberti had a "set to" and Uberti offered Taylors and others, the 71/72 Open Top.  Just to add to the weirdness, when I added .44 Colt/Special to my Open Tops, the barrels came stamped 44-40!!  Uberti never made '71/72 Open Tops in 44-40.  Go Figure.

Just also curious, do you have any Blow-By Fouling trouble with your 1866 running 44 Colt cases??  I have had to anneal my 44 Special cases as the chamber fouls terribly.  Do the 44 Colt cases also cycle in the OEM Carrier Block??  .44 Russian cases require a Carrier Block modified for "short" cartridges.  Ain't playing with guns just gobs of FUN!!!

[Crow Choker]

Crow Choker

Initially, the 71/72 Open Top was a Cimarron Exclusive.  Then Cimarron and Uberti had a "set to" and Uberti offered Taylors and others, the 71/72 Open Top.  Just to add to the weirdness, when I added .44 Colt/Special to my Open Tops, the barrels came stamped 44-40!!  Uberti never made '71/72 Open Tops in 44-40.  Go Figure.

After thinking about anyone offering the 71/72 Open Top other than Cimarron when I purchased mine in 2007, other than possibly private smiths or home built, I don't recall anyone offering the OT. If I recall right I bought direct from Cimarron as no one else seemed to be selling them, except a dealer that went through Cimarron. I sort of recall seeing Taylor's offering them when I either received a new catalog from them or saw it on their website way after I bought from Cimarron.

In regards to the Richards II and Richards Mason conversions, I've never figured out why Taylors calls the later Richards Mason conversions (last of the conversions Colt offered before the 1873 Peacemaker) the C.Mason Model. C for Charles as in Charles Richards who developed the original or Richards I model (and Richards II) and Mason for William Mason who refined the Richards models. Both Colt shop workers. Curious if there is some business or name usage restrictions. All made by Uberti. Yepper, a Open top in 44-40, the caliber in a Colt model that never was either originally or in the Italian reproduction onslaught.

Crow Choker
Just also curious, do you have any Blow-By Fouling trouble with your 1866 running 44 Colt cases??  I have had to anneal my 44 Special cases as the chamber fouls terribly.  Do the 44 Colt cases also cycle in the OEM Carrier Block??  .44 Russian cases require a Carrier Block modified for "short" cartridges.  Ain't playing with guns just gobs of FUN!!!

Nope, never really a problem with 44 Colt Blow-By in my '66 or with 44 Specials when shooting them. Resize and load both using a RCBS Cowboy Die set. Load my own cast lead bullets using soft lead, BIN 8 or less, sized .430", SPG or Dick Dastardly Pearl lube. The only blow-by I've really had any problem with are 45 Colt rounds shot in a mid 1970's EMF Jagaur (sp) 73 Colt copy of the '73 Colt. Nice ol piece, good tight, smooth action. Shooting the same batch rounds in my Old Model Ruger Vaquero chambered for 45 Colt, I get no  blow-by. Must be looser chambers in the EMF. The 44 Colt rounds shooting black in my revolvers and the '66 Winchester are fairly clean shooting considering using FF black.

The 44 Colt rounds cycle very good in the '66 as do the 44 Spec's. When first starting to shoot the 44 Colt rds in it I wondered if I may need to get a different carrier block as I had read of the possible need. Had read here on the forum of those doing so shooting 44 Russians and some doing so using 44 Colt. Have never had any hang-ups, fail to feed, and any of the other problems I've read. I can cycle the action fairly fast with no problem.

[Vaqueros1876]

Cow choker, yep mine is marked "Cimarron", I picked it up from a local gun store in Helena MT back in 07 or 08. I've only ever shot black through it, mostly 44 Russian loaded with 23 gr of 3f and a 210 Lee boolit and a homemade lube. It's always done well. I've never shot it much just some plinking here and there. One of these days I want to get in to CAS and shoot it a bunch more but time has not been available yet.

[Vaqueros1876]

Additional photos.

[Major 2]

Back in 06 Uberti intro'ed & began to offer the Type II conversion.
I was all in to get one, Cimarron was the exclusive importer at that time.
But problem was, they just trickled in as multi order buyers were being first served.
I waited till "Shot 07" being held in Orlando that year, still none to be had.
I was told, just 60 more days, then just 60 more several times and at SHOT " maybe by the time "THEY Cimarron returned to Fredericksburg.
  I saw Kenny Howell offering a Type 1 Richards conversion on your donor frame, but they were costly for the custom made piece.
One day, I saw one of the  "Last Stand at Saber River" guns being offered.
I jumped on it as it was a bargain. see below.
In 08 I finally got a Type II in private deal and still have both.
I used the T-2 as my main match NOWS, I tapered off and haven't shot CAS in a couple of years though. 

[Coffinmaker]

Big JUCY LIKE button for Vaqueros and The Major you betcha 

[DeaconKC]

Those sure are downright PURTY you two.

[Abilene]

Love those guns, Major.  The Type 1 because of what it is, the Type II because it is gorgeous. 

Well okay, here's mine. I put Navy grips on both.  44 1860 on top, 38 1861 on bottom.  Shoot Russkies in the .44.

[Hair Trigger Jim]

Abilene, dem sure are pur-dee!  Same for you, Vaqueros and Major.

[Major 2]

Thanks Guy's
44 Colt's in mine.
 

[45 Dragoon]

Yep!! I'm a lush for cartridge open-tops! Great lookin bunch!!