Let's talk about .38 Colt conversions..

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I confess that, while my knowledge of 1860 conversions and 1872 Open Tops is pretty comprehensive, I really know surprisingly little about how popular the .38 Colt conversions were back in the day. 

The Navy loading of a 150 grain,  .381" heeled bullet over 19-20 grains of powder was decent, giving just over 200 ft lbs of energy.  That is about the same as the BP loaded .44 Colt with a 210 grain bullet, and 2/3's of the .44 Russian's 300 ft lbs with it 246 grain bullet.

I need to research in McDowell to compare production numbers, but as popular as the .36 Navy revolvers were during and after the Civil War, it seems they may have been as popular as the .44s.

They certainly would have been a better stopper than the pocket revolvers in .32 and .38 S&W/Colt short.  Interested in any thoughts or specific knowledge on the .38 Colt conversions.

[Galloway]

I shoot a 51 replica and its one of my favorites. Im always suprised how powerful 18gr with a 150 feels, though i've never chronoed it. I think the 38's are under represented as far as replicas go. Remington made at least 3 38 conversions in the 1870's. I wish the 58 45colt replicas were made in the navy version rather than the 44, which would have looked spot on with the loading gate. The modern 38 long colt is one of my favorite calibers to shoot and puts down small game well, but unfortunately in 3 safes full of guns i only shoot and load for one 38colt!

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Until the ascendancy of the 9mm  with effective hollow point loads around the Mid-1990s, the .38 Special was the most common pistol round used by both law enforcement and civilians for almost 100 years. When I started in law enforcement in the 1970s, it was JHP .38 specials in .357 famed revolvers that was the standard.  In that 100 years, a awful lot of people on both sides of the law met their demise from the .38 Special.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Interesting fact I found in McDowell.  The US Navy was still issuing and using 1851 and 1861 .38 Colt centerfire conversion revolvers in 1888, as in that year they switched from US Cartridge Co. ammunition to Union Metallic Cartridge ammunition.  As far as I know, they never adopted the 1873 SAA Colt like the Army did.  Back in those days, they probably figured "if it isn't broke, don't fix it." 

They finally adopted the Colt DA 1892 in 1895 to replace their 1851 and 1861 .38 cartridge conversions.  The Navy apparently kept issuing the .375" heeled bullet .38 Colt load, referred to as the Navy loading. The Army used the new 150 grain, hollow based, .357" diameter inside lubed bullet.

[Major 2]

I've shown this one before.... It started as a EMF Heritage 61 Navy with a born date of 2008....
I acquired it in a trade....The idea was to mimic the 1860 Avenging Angels I had done for the Film of the same name.
They remained C&B ---for this one I wanted a cartridge conversion, so I shipped it off the Gary Barnes for the Kirst conversion and it was nitrate blued.
I had bobbed the 61 barrel and acquired the 51 barrel (which was .357 lined ) the 61 .375 barrel remains unlined. 
Gary did the lining and the Nitrate blue on all parts.

I have Heeled base bullets for the 61 barrel & use round nose 38 Colt or Spcl. with the 51 barrel.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

According to several sources (Venturino, McDowell, Spangenberger), the 1851 and its conversions were one of the most popular revolvers in the Colt lineup until the 1880s.  I am looking for Colt factory production numbers of the .38 conversion as opposed to the .44 conversions. 

I have read that unlike the Open Top .44 rimfire and the .44 Colt 1860 conversions which ceased when the 1873 SAA was introduced in 1973, Colt continued producing and retrofitting the 1851/1861 cartridge revolvers until almost 1880, totaling over 300,000 of both percussion and cartridge.

[Coffinmaker]

I have two pair of .36s.  First up is a pair of Pietta 1862 NYMP (built on 1851 frames) which I changed the cylinders and barrels to 1851 Pattern and then converted to SNUBBIES.  I shoot them with R & D conversion cylinders and load 158Gr Hollow Base Wadcutters over a pile of APP.  They are not wimps.  They are rather accurate.  Seems the hollow base bullets work a treat.

Next set are Pietta 1851 Capt. Schaeffer Replicants.  4 inch barrels (I didn't cut 'em) and Stainless R&D Conversion cylinders.  Shoot the same load.  Also quite accurate.

I haven't shot either of them onna Pizza box so I can't quote a group size but they always ring steel on a typical SASS Target.  They even ring steel with 125Gr Bullets.

I am one of those whom thinks there was a whole lot more activity in .38 cartridge conversions than has been acknowledged by all the tomes on the subject.  Lots and lots of folks were packing Colt pattern and Remington Suppository conversions.  Mine are a whole bunch of fun.  Of course I also don't shoot Round Ball in 'em either.  I really like the EPP-UG-36.  90Gr out of the mold, hauls a barge load of lube (if needed) and gives a nice solid KLANG onna CAS target.  Burma Shave

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Further research shows .38 conversions outnumbered the .44 conversions 3 to 1!  Colt made about 11,000 total of the Richards and Richards-Mason .44 Cartridge conversions (not counting owner 1860 guns returned to convert and sent back). 

The .38 Conversions, however, numbered over 31,000 produced.  Of those, 6,000 were 1851 and 1861 conversions, and another 25,000 were their.36 caliber, 5 shot Pocket and Police models. (also excluding percussion .36 caliber revolvers returned by their owners to convert). Some were .38 Rimfire, and some were .38 Colt centerfire.

By the shear force of numbers, the .38 cartridge conversions would have been more common on the frontier!  Spangenberger listed it ahead of the 1860 and .44 conversions as importance on the frontier.  He stated beginning with the California Gold Rush, the 1851 Navy and its conversions were Colt's most popular revolvers until the eventual widespread proliferation of the 1873 SAA in the 1880s (in the 1870s, most of the production went to the military).  That is further evidenced by the fact that Colt .38 Conversions were continuously produced until 1880.  That gave the .36/.38 revolvers a 30 year run of popularity.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I am liking the .38 Long Colt more and more. 44 caliber 1860 production numbered about 200,000. Total 1851 production (including London made) was around 250,000, with another 40,000 to 50,000 of the 1861 (barrel change, same grip, frame, and cylinder).  That is 100,000 units (50%) more than the 1860. 

COLT 1860s were made from 1860 to 1865, then R & R-M conversions 1871 to 1873 (a total of 7 years between the two). The 1851 and conversions, were being produced for almost 30 years until 1880.   The longevity of production, as well as the shear numbers that were produced certainly implies how popular the "underpowered" .36 percussion/.38 Long Colt revolvers were.