A bold suggestion?

[yahoody]

We currently have a USFA, a Clone and a Colt section on the forum.  Seems the USFA section is pretty dead or may be just in the middle of a slow linger death

We all know USPFA and the USFA guns started as  Uberti parts guns refinished here in the USA.  There was some obvious cross pollination with Uberti and USFA late in life.  Uberti guns got better.  A lot better.

Uberti  CNC programs  and production sizing were used till the end of USA production at USFA and  those same programs are now used at Standard along with the resulting tweaks to the programs over time.

How about we call them all what they actually are...and recognize the fact they are all Uberti based guns?   And start a new forum....with the actual players all in one place.   Uberti, USPFA, USFA and now Standard?

[everetto]

We currently have a USFA, a Clone and a Colt section on the forum.  Seems the USFA section is pretty dead or may be just in the middle of a slow linger death

We all know USPFA and the USFA guns started as  Uberti parts guns refinished here in the USA.  There was some obvious cross pollination with Uberti and USFA late in life.  Uberti guns got better.  A lot better.

Uberti  CNC programs  and production sizing were used till the end of USA production at USFA and  those same programs are now used at Standard along with the resulting tweaks to the programs over time.

How about we call them all what they actually are...and recognize the fact they are all Uberti based guns?   And start a new forum....with the actual players all in one place.   Uberti, USPFA, USFA and now Standard?

I'm fairly new to this forum (not new to Cowboy guns of all types), and so I realize my thoughts may not have much weight here, but I think you may be onto something.  With that said, what about Pietta - I have had a few Piettas with wonderful actions.  Just a thought.  Maybe the name of the proposed new section should be all inclusive of single actions other than Colt, but I hate the name "Clones", it seems kind of denigrating. 

[yahoody]

Thanks for the input.  The Pietta is a true Colt reproduction.  It is actually the same size as a Colt and many parts can be interchanged with no fitting.  The Uberti size guns (which include Uberti USPFA, USFA and Standard)  are different.  Different, larger size frames and cylinders o nthe Uberti specs guns.   Smaller frames and cylinders for the Colt/Pietta guns.

Any number of single action revolvers  Colt/Colt sized guns, the the Uberti sized guns, and of course Rugers.  Likely a different category in there as well. 

Not my idea to heap them all into one bunch other than Colt because they aren't the same guns.   I think you could easily make the argument that the Uberti size guns are...the same guns with different levels of fit, finish internal parts quality.

[LonesomePigeon]

 I think USFA/USPFA deserves it's own forum. When I wanted to buy my first SAA, or replica thereof, I did a lot of research and this forum was a fantastic resource. I basically went through every page of this forum looking for threads with titles related to issues or complaints. I found that there were almost zero complaints against American made USFA's relating to function, fit, finish, POA-POI. The most common complaint was that they cost too much and that they don't have the pony on them. Again, almost no complaints about fit, finish and function. The same could not be said for any Italian repro or even Colt for that matter. I like them all but I really think USFA is in a class of it's own.

The conundrum is that now Standard has emerged and they appear to be just as good as USFA, or at least a serious contender. 

 

 

[yahoody]

I think your search  is typical of many  who go looking.  And if you keep the info separated, unjustly so IMO,   ...it is a dis-service to many folks looking for a quality 6 gun.

I've seen all kinds of comments on Uberti and USFA for that matter.  Most of the negative comments on either gun come from earlier versions.  The odd safeties Uberti has used over the years and the obvious Uberti parts guns USPSA and USFA built early on.

Uberti upped their game  when USFA went under...by  getting schooled @ USFA's expense and are now much higher quality guns than they did 20 years ago.

Most folks have yet to shoot all three of the Uberti designs (Uberti, USFA, Standard) let alone the latest versions of  all three.   Much like the Rodeo, Cowboy and Premium grade guns from USFA earlier, again, you now have a chance to pay for  the cosmetics you want on a six gun Colt replica and no more.

"USFA is in a class of it's own."   

Actually when you shoot and compare  the current versions of both Uberti and Standard, along side a decent USFA gun I think you'd find that statement isn't true.  More like some where in between the two others,  Uberti and Standard, and all being "equal" if given a fair shake on the testing.  The only reason I  would put USFA at the top is  minor cosmetics I prefer.  Other's might prefer Standard's cosmetics or value the price point of Uberti even more than the cosmetics of the first two.

Thinking USFA is a class all it's own is like the Colt fanatics claiming the same about a Pony roll mark.  Nice guns but not really the stand outs today that we might want to think they are.

[Coffinmaker]

First and foremost .. A CAVEAT:  I personally hate the term "Clone."  I don't actually know whom came up with it, but it would be my wish, we first "Draw and Quarter" that Scribe.  There, I feel better now.

I look at the discussion from the standpoint of a Mechanic.  I don't collet anything.  I have, however worked on Single Action Six Guns for a bit over twenty years.  20 years ago, Uberti manufactured crap.  They worked .. sort of but required a lot of almost remanufacturing.  Since the time USFA went to all USA parts, Uberti woke up and upped their game.  Beretta had a lot to do with that.  In infusion of cash, engineers and CNC machine tools made a HUGE difference.  Even when USFA were USPFA and well invested in Uberti parts, they still produced a gun superior to Uberti.  Way overpriced but none the less superior.  I have always described USFA as very well made gussied up Uberti's.  Along those lines, Uberti has alway built good looking Percussion Guns.  Good looking, but KRAP if you really wanted to shoot them.  Uberti Cap Guns are still KRAP.  Today, most of Uberti's cartridge guns are really well made examples of SAs.  Except for their Open Top line up.  Uberti Open Top guns are still Krap.  They require huge work to run well.

Colt has been hit or miss in quality with the late 2d Generation and 3rd Generation of guns.  For the most part, terrible.  The actions have felt like they were full of sand.  Colt has needed as much work as Uberti to play well in CAS.  For the money asked, one shouldn't have to remanufacture the thing to get it to run.  This also applies to USFA.  For that kind of money, it should run right out of the box.

Closest Reproductions of Colt are/were Armi San Marco and Pietta.  Many parts interchange.  ASM let their quality go inna toilette and are gone.  Not missed.  Pietta rethought and retooled for production of the Great Western II and never looked back.  You can actually run a Pietta right out of the box.  You can, of course, run it much better if you change the Main Spring.  Pietta Percussion Guns are wonderfully easy to set up for CAS gaming.

I've only had hands on two Standard guns.  Very very nice on the outside.  Very nice on the inside.  Both guns I had hands on were being returned for cosmetic flaws.  At Standards price point, their shouldn't be any cosmetic flaws.  And as with everybody else, the guns were WAY over sprung.  For the life of me, I cannot figure out Why the manufacturers haven't accepted we use modern primers??  Should be really easy to figure out.  Of course, all the manufacturers guns are Over Sprung.  WHY???

Then we come back to the OPs thoughts to combine the subject matter into perhaps a single heading.  Nah.  Way too many differences.  In most instances, a newby can ask assistance here on our forums and within a dozen replies, get enough comparison to gag a maggot.  Of course, I like it the way it is.  Why fix what ain't broke.  Just my personal Opine.

Besides, in most cases, there is simply too much information to encapsulate it under a single heading or even in a single reply.  Even in this long winded expose, I left a lot of stuff unsaid.  TMI 

[everetto]

On the quality subject, I have owned 10 or so USFAs, most have been pretty good out of the box, one was terrible (and it was a 100% US revolver) and required a lot of work to make the action better.  The single Pietta I have owned was quite good.  I have probably owned 20 or more Ubertis and I would say 90% of them were pretty good out of the box.  My point is all of them can have outlier guns that have issues, even USFA. 

[Professor Marvel]

....
Uberti upped their game  when USFA went under...by  getting schooled @ USFA's expense and are now much higher quality guns than they did 20 years ago.
...

I think that Donnely was getting more than parts from Uberti, I think they provided the CNC programs, and they could have been
looking at USFA as a test bed & learning platform. I do recall that teh CNC equipment was only leased by Donnolly.

i beleive, but cannot prove, that after Uberti got bought by Beretta et al, someone up the food chain noticed and
shut the "sharing" down completely, which could have led to the demise......

Fortunately ( off topic) Pietta is still family run, and went the other way around and bought out EMF so we still have a decent outlet in the states for Piettas.

even tho Standard makes a great noise about how they are "srtand alone" and invented everything from scratch, I find it very suspicious that the
USFA equipment went off the market, along with the software, and suddenly StandArd is making bangstiuck identical to Uberti...

back on topic, merging the subforums might inmprove traffic,
but I think it would be a disservcie for those looking for company specific data, and links to the other subforums can readily
be inserted as a sort of footnote referenece....


yhs
prof scrambled and bad SP

[yahoody]

Pretty much a known fact that Standard "inherited" a bunch of things from USFA.   Make a list: CNC machines, CNC programs, some paper work, packaging and of course much of their technical knowledge in the personal.

[Professor Marvel]

Pretty much a known fact that Standard "inherited" a bunch of things from USFA.   Make a list: CNC machines, CNC programs, some paper work, packaging and of course much of their technical knowledge in the personal.

Well, they do deny it.

To hear their Snake Oil Sales Pitch you'ld think they invented everything including screws, rifling, and steel.

yhs
prf scrambled

[Dave T]

I called Standard to ask about black-powder frame models. The "Snake Oil Sales Pitch" of the man on the phone turned me off to Standard.

That being said, I could see combining Standard and USFA on the same section of the forum. They are both made in the USA and both are high quality single action revolvers, done in the style of the Colt. Despite the improved quality of the Uberti and Pietta, they are not made in the USA. Like USFA and Standard fit in the same section, Pietta and Uberti fit together, at least to me.

YMMV,
Dave

[Professor Marvel]

..... I could see combining Standard and USFA on the same section of the forum.

now that there actually does make sense
prf mvl

[Coffinmaker]

PLUS ONE to the Perfesser   

I could see lumping Standard and USFA under the same heading.  I could also see lumping Uberti and Pietta under the same heading.

Snake Oil and Patent Medicines aside, does that mean Standard didn't really invent Steel 
Standard does confirm, with unabashed pride, they obviously invented the SA Revolver 

[Coffinmaker]

Almost forgot   

Long I have been an Opinionated cuss.  Ah, no no really.  It's true.  In that vein I have long ben want to describe the offerings from USFA as Gussied-Up Uberti's.  I stand by that.  With a disclaimer:  USFA managed to take their Uberti sourced SA Parts and build a Damn FINE SA Revolver.  Probably the nicest SAs I ever owned were a bespoke pair of .38 Omnipotent.  Gorgeous, super fine fit and finish.  I just couldn't find a way to draw and shot 'em Gunfighter.  I also couldn't find the Box Tops to fund having them engraved.  Double drat.  Finely crafted guns they were.  Were also some overpriced. There is also the possibility the offering from Standard may well be some overpriced.  Not, you understand, that I'm Opinionated 

[yahoody]

in that vein I have long ben want to describe the offerings from USFA as Gussied-Up Uberti's.

Oh, please!  Pietta is a "Colt" as was ASN trying to be prior.

USPFA?  USFA?  Standard?  Surprised more don't recognize they are all Uberti based guns?   Same folks who didn't realize the early USFA and earlier yet USPFA guns were simply gussied up Ubertis put together from Uberti parts and finished here in the USA.

Be much better IMO if everyone that wanted to buy a new six gun actually had access to that set of facts.

[Dave T]

Dane,

Not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely curious. Other than cylinder size, what do you men by "Uberti based guns"? 

Dave

[yahoody]

?.I am genuinely curious. Other than cylinder size, what do you men by "Uberti based guns"? 

Fair question.  With few exceptions all the internals  from Uberti, USFA to Standard can be inter changed, and those that  aren't easy to simply swap out, like the firing pins, can be changed out or easily modified to work.

But the most import difference between Uberti and Colt is the frame size which is larger than a Colt, as is the cylinder.  Uberti cylinders will work in  all three of the brand name guns.   Colt parts and the internals  won't.

All the internals for a Colt are different.  Thread patters are different.  I'd argue these days Uberti offers a much better design effort and parts than Colt does.  The Uberti designs went straight into USFA and now Standard.

I get it that everyone wants "American made" but fact is, Uberti and its copies are Italian designed and many times Italian.    Makes me laugh when I think about the comparisons.  Build a Ferrari in the USA on Ferrari machines?  That make it American made?   Doug Donnelly got away with the hoax for a decade.  Care to speculate about every part used at Standard is American made?       

[everetto]

This thread makes me feel better about my crappy "not 100% US guns" 

[yahoody]

The "problem" if these is one, was that that late USA made USFA guns were so good, that guys like Dave and I who had been shooting 1st Gen Colts, got a USA made gun and went "wow" these are really something.

And they are compared to  even 2nd Gen Colts and  of course 3rd Gen Colts.  And at the time they were light years ahead of anything Uberti was putting out.

Everyone played catch up and went to school on USFA's efforts.  Everyone is making a better gun today because of what USFA left on the table.

The "crappy" USFA guns?  I've torn apart  USPFA guns through the Uberti parts guns from USFA and  to the end of production there.    The same with every generation Colt and  a good many Ubertis over h last 30 years.  No one likes their toys/money/choices insulted.

Me?  I own something from everyone, but I shoot current production Ubertis for a reason.

[everetto]

The "crappy" USFA guns?  I've torn apart  USPFA guns through the Uberti parts guns from USFA and  to the end of production there.    The same with every generation Colt and  a good many Ubertis over h last 30 years.  No one likes their toys/money/choices insulted.

I was being sarcastic.......