The Black Hills / Kirst / EMF .38 Colt ammunition project begins!

[Marshal Will Wingam]

That's a fine lineup. I take it that the 140's are the ones on the far right. What are the others?

[Tuolumne Lawman]

L to R: 1, 3,& 5 are 150s, 2 is 125, and 4 is 150 deep seated. 6 is Bear Creek 140.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks. They all look good. That heeled seating crimp is cool.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Wow, hard to believe the project started over a year ago.  Pretty much still on hold, I guess, because of COVID.  I work part time at a gun shop, and heard from a distributor that Remington ammo is producing only at 20% capacity since it started getting bad.

Noit sure where it goes from here.  Have not heard back from Jeff Hoffman at Black hills for some time.  Still, I found hsoft hollow base wadcutters work about as well as heeled bullets.  Using my .38s at the next match I do to see how the tighter crimp and 3.4 grains of TB work.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks for the update. I wondered how it was going. It's good that you found some soft lead bullets that work. Looking forward to hearing your report on those after the next match.

[Coffinmaker]

  Well . . Considering 

Considering the original purpose of this thread, the following will probably be considered blasphemous.  However, in contribution, I do posses TWO EMF Capt. Schaeffer replicants.  4 inch barrels.  Not long after I received mine, I discovered Kenny Howell had released some swell Stainless conversion cylinders that looked absolutely the Biz for the Schaeffer. 

They are absolutely the Biz for the Schaeffer.  I shoot them with 38Spl cases and 148Gr hollow base wadcutters.  More than adequate accuracy for CAS.  Haven't bothered to shoot them on the Pizza Box yet as I haven't missed a CAS target with them.  No need.  HBWC work a treat, yes they do.

Hide and Watch.

PS:  I don't think anyone is back to full production at this point in Covid Time.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Mike, those Capt. Schaeffers of yours are spectacular. Even more so, knowing that they perform as good as they look.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Our club finally opened up for a Cowboy match next Saturday.  Think I will load up some 3.5 grains of Trail Boss with medium crimp for the match to see how they do.  As far as project goes, it is DOA at least until Summer if not later.  Black Hills is struggling to get components for their existing line, and Bear Creek is working overtime to fill traditional bullets during this Pandemic fear silliness.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Glad to hear your club is getting active again. It's been a long ridiculous ride. This is an interesting thread and when such a time comes as you can move forward with it, I'll be all ears. Thanks for the update. Looking forward to hearing how your med crimp loads work.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

The heck of it is, I could just load 148 grain hollow base wadcutters protruding from the case about 3/8" with a roll crimp, load them with 3.7 of Trail Boss, and knock the p*ss out of them, without tearing the case.  If the tighter crimp ruins the cases, or still is lacking in poop, I think I'll abandon heeled bullets

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Your efforts will certainly add to the overall understanding of what works and what doesn't.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Update!  Nothing confirmed, but it looks like Bear Creek will manufacture a 150 grain, round nose flat point hollow base .357" bullet, and Buffalo Arms is going to produce ammo using that bullet.  It will be able to be used in un-lined conversions or .36 percussions and lined or factory .38 special revolvers.  DO NOT bother either one yet.  It is still in the planning stage, but I will let you know.

I am Kirst Konverting another 1851 Pietta so I have a main match pair of .38 Colts.  I still have plenty of primers and brass.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks for the update. I look forward to hearing when these new bullets come out.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Finished my second Pietta/Kirst .38 long Colt Konversion (bottom).  Paired with my original one from more than two years ago.  Now if Bear Creek can send my some samples of the new bullet, I'll be ready.  As cool as heeled bullets are, their performance with smokeless is terrible, and the too tight crimped needed destroys the brass.  Can't wait to load some 150 HBRN.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Those are a nice pair. Good work, there. Now it will be fun to read about your experience with the new hollow base bullets.

From the grip shapes and the size & shape of the trigger guards, the most recent one looks like it is a pre-2015 model and the other a newer one. Is that the case?

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Yep, the top one I got from EMF in the fall of 2019 when the whole .38 Colt project began.  It came with steel grip and trigger guard and faux ivory grips.  The bottom is a Cabelas marked one that a guy sold me for his friend. 

It was unfired and left in a drawer for at least a few years.  I'll get manufacture date codes from them if I can.  The Kirst unit popped in perfect, and timing was spot on.  The wedge that was in it had been hammered it and was way too tight.  You could not get it in far enough to let the retention spring grab.  I replaced it with a trimmed wewdge that I had, and now it is perfect.  It has a nice trigger pull, too.

really looking forward to trying them.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Thanks, I thought that was the case. I look forward to hearing your results.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Double tap

[Tuolumne Lawman]

I have to admit that I am really Jonesing to get the bullets and load them up.  I REALLY like how sleek and slick the 1851s point.  I'll need to put taller front sights on them, but thats OK.  I might just load up some 148 HBWCs in the .38 colt cases to get a feel of what it will be like.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

As I said in my Cowboy Chronicle article, the original black powder heeled .38 Colt out of 7.5" barrel gave between 210 and 220 ft pounds, ME, almost the same as the .44 Colt conversions.  That is also about the same as the .380 Auto and 9mm Makarov pistol cartridges, which have been used (in the case of the .380) for over 110 years as an effective self defense cartridge. 

In fact, a lot of standard velocity 9mms from a 2.5' to 3.0" barrel only give in the high 250+ ft lb range.

Link to my Cowboy Chronicle article: Page 32

https://sassnet.com/Downloads/20eChron/20OctChronGO.pdf