How do you do cartridge loops?

Capt Quirk · October 13, 2019, 01:04:01 PM

I have seen them seen down, and I have seen them looped up and back through the belt. I have been using a slot punch, then up and back through the same slot. That is a pain at times. Is there an easier way?

Cliff Fendley · October 13, 2019, 02:13:34 PM

I do three different ways depending on style and look for the belt and rig.

The full woven in and out the same slot is the easiest and the woven loops are strongest. I sew all of my money belts because it's authentic and works best for the thin leather body of a money belt.

Marshal Will Wingam · October 13, 2019, 02:24:29 PM

If you decide to stitch the loops, here's our thread on cartridge loops.

Capt Quirk · October 13, 2019, 02:46:16 PM

So, are you in favor of stitching?

Skeeter Lewis · October 13, 2019, 03:24:57 PM

There are examples of lacing in our period, but the overwhelming majority of cartridge loops were sewn.
If authenticity matters to you, then sew.
Even though it's a pain in the neck.

Capt Quirk · October 13, 2019, 06:17:14 PM

Authenticity really isn't an issue, it's going on a buscadaro belt for a 22. Sewing is easy enough, even by hand. My thoughts against sewing, is that stitch holes weaken leather, and on a small strip that is pulled on, a likely place to fail. Weaving it seems stronger, but I'm having trouble keeping tension. Sometimes is good, sometimes... not so good.

greyhawk · October 13, 2019, 08:12:13 PM

Quote from: Capt Quirk on October 13, 2019, 06:17:14 PM
Authenticity really isn't an issue, it's going on a buscadaro belt for a 22. Sewing is easy enough, even by hand. My thoughts against sewing, is that stitch holes weaken leather, and on a small strip that is pulled on, a likely place to fail. Weaving it seems stronger, but I'm having trouble keeping tension. Sometimes is good, sometimes... not so good.

I reckon stitched is best for holding the ammo BUT any stitched belt ya need to sew a lining on the inside over the stitches otherwise they wear through the stitching and the whole thing is stuffed. All my ammo belts are hand sewed loops with a full hand sewed lining of soft leather (pigskin or garment/upholstery leather) - Its some work but taint that hard in the overall scheme of things. Use a stitch marker and overstitch wheel on all this - hand rolled waxed linen thread.

Capt Quirk · October 13, 2019, 08:57:02 PM

As dangerous as I would be with a sewing machine, I have learned the overstitch wheel is not my friend either. I rely on stitching chisels and awl. I agree with a liner, and most of my belts are double layered with 6-8oz veg tan.

greyhawk · October 13, 2019, 09:25:00 PM

Quote from: Capt Quirk on October 13, 2019, 08:57:02 PM
As dangerous as I would be with a sewing machine, I have learned the overstitch wheel is not my friend either. I rely on stitching chisels and awl. I agree with a liner, and most of my belts are double layered with 6-8oz veg tan.

yup
everybody will work a little different - I mark em and punch with an awl - never seen a stitching chisel (for thread sewing).?
the overstitch wheel needs to be an exactemo fit to the stitching but if so it will lay the stitches down nice in a lightly gouged channel wont wear from rubbing then.

We do mm rather than oz weight - I would prefer 3mm for a belt body - dunno how that computes ? maybe 8oz+ ??

Capt Quirk · October 13, 2019, 09:49:34 PM

Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on October 13, 2019, 02:24:29 PM
If you decide to stitch the loops, here's our thread on cartridge loops.

Thanks Marshal, that thread was great!

Johnny McCrae · October 14, 2019, 02:00:36 PM

QuoteI'm having trouble keeping tension. Sometimes is good, sometimes... not so good.

I used to have the same problem. Some loops would end up too tight and some loops would end up too loose. I improved the consistency of my "loop tension" by adding a bit of Barge or Contact Cement between each loop after adjusting the tension to suit. This appears to lock in the tension. I use empty brass for sizing the loop and leave it in during the weaving process. It's more time consuming this way but it seems to help.

Marshal Will Wingam · October 14, 2019, 07:31:25 PM

Thanks for all the contributions, pards. All this is good information. I may have to go pull some loops through a belt.

Also, it might be a good idea to add this thread to the end of the cartridge loop thread after we've run down. Others may have the same question in the future.

Capt Quirk · October 14, 2019, 11:00:27 PM

I think so too. But this isn't a "how to" question, as much as "which one works best". Just wondering what works for you. I just finished doing loops on a cartridge belt with a half weave. It worked out way better than the full weave did on the first attempt. That went horribly wrong. I realize now, my loop strap was way too heavy at 6-8oz. 4-5oz to his time.

Cliff Fendley · October 15, 2019, 10:47:12 AM

Quote from: Capt Quirk on October 13, 2019, 06:17:14 PM
Authenticity really isn't an issue, it's going on a buscadaro belt for a 22. Sewing is easy enough, even by hand. My thoughts against sewing, is that stitch holes weaken leather, and on a small strip that is pulled on, a likely place to fail. Weaving it seems stronger, but I'm having trouble keeping tension. Sometimes is good, sometimes... not so good.

If authenticity isn't an issue then I would weave them. I never have problems with the sewn loops keeping tension but 22 caliber loops can be an issue so that may be your problem.

For a 22 the only real success I've had is with a semi-woven loop where you go in and out separate slots with a space between them. You can do a spot or rivet to hold them.

Capt Quirk · October 15, 2019, 02:57:34 PM

Quote from: greyhawk on October 13, 2019, 09:25:00 PM
yup
everybody will work a little different - I mark em and punch with an awl - never seen a stitching chisel (for thread sewing).?
the overstitch wheel needs to be an exactemo fit to the stitching but if so it will lay the stitches down nice in a lightly gouged channel wont wear from rubbing then.

We do mm rather than oz weight - I would prefer 3mm for a belt body - dunno how that computes ? maybe 8oz+ ??

The stitching chisels are like a little fork, different stitch sizes, different numbers of tines. They leave nicely spaced diamond shaped holes. Mark your stitch line, grab the appropriate chisel, line it up and give it a whack.

When it comes to stitch lines, I know a lot of folks use a groover. This bothers me, as you are gouging the toughest part of the hide, and weakening an already weak spot further. I wet the leather, and using a compass, I emboss a deep line for the thread to lay in.

greyhawk · October 16, 2019, 01:01:01 AM

Quote from: Capt Quirk on October 15, 2019, 02:57:34 PM
The stitching chisels are like a little fork, different stitch sizes, different numbers of tines. They leave nicely spaced diamond shaped holes. Mark your stitch line, grab the appropriate chisel, line it up and give it a whack.

When it comes to stitch lines, I know a lot of folks use a groover. This bothers me, as you are gouging the toughest part of the hide, and weakening an already weak spot further. I wet the leather, and using a compass, I emboss a deep line for the thread to lay in.

Yeah seen the stitching chisels for lacing holes - didnt realise they were made to punch holes same as a diamond awl for thread sewing. Something to look out for in my travels!
re the gouge - agree with your thinking - I use it where I am edge sewing the lining on cartridge belts - I would suggest you might do at least as much strength damage with the stitching chisel as I would do using a gouge and single pointed awl ? Two different tracks round the same cactus bush I reckon.

Coffinmaker · October 16, 2019, 09:26:20 AM

Yes!! There is a much much easier way. I call my Leather Guy with my belt and loop requirements, and PRESTO - CHANGEO about a few weeks later, go pick up a brandy knew gunbelt complete with cartridge loops. Except ..... I no longer order a gunbelt with cartridge loops. A bunch of cartridge loops full of cartridges is a whole bunch of lead to haul around. Makes the Gunbelt much too heavy.
for ME, anyway. Butt, admittedly, I've gotten some older and much more picky.

Most probably, this missive has almost no bearing on the OP question(s). Therefore, may well be ignored by most one and all. I won't be insulted at all. Won't even feel bad. I do however, well recommend a contour gunbelt. Much more comfortable.

1961MJS · June 04, 2020, 04:27:13 PM

Hi

I've been searching Cartridge belts for a while today and SOMEONE wrote that woven was the earlier method, and most belts were sewn. I looked at Packing Iron and only found one semi-woven belt on page 176, the rest were sewn, and none were woven. I was speed reading, so if I missed one please say so. I don't want to do the Semi-Woven, not enough ammunition, too much space between the rounds. Did I miss a woven one?

Oh, and Diamond Hole Chisel Set 3009-00 has 1 through 4 prong chisels 3/32, 1/8, and 5/32 inches apart with a screw on Handle. Nice toy to have.

Thanks

1961MJS · June 05, 2020, 04:24:26 PM

Hi again, I've pretty much talked myself into sewn loops.
Later

Marshal Will Wingam · June 05, 2020, 04:38:45 PM

I prefer loops stitched on myself. They work great and look right to my eyes. I look forward to a photo of your rig.