We need new blood to keep NCOWS going

[Books OToole]

It is not cheap.  However other than ammo, the stuff lasts forever.

I created a 1890 Gambler character for last years National Match.

Hat
  borrowed
Shirt
  Made by my wife in 2005
Tie
  River Junction Trading Co. $ 15
Vest
  Second hand  $ 20
Coat
   Thrift store $ 5 (modified by me)
Pants
   Hamilton Dry Goods  $ 20
Boots
   Thrift store  $ 20
Original Smith & Wesson DA .38
   Gun Show $ 250
Dave Scot Shoulder Holster - $ 75
Uberti 1866 Winchester - $ 900

I believe that the total comes to $ 1305.  Pro-rated over 10; its not that expensive.

Books

[Cliff Fendley]

Regarding my earlier comments.  I did misstate the number of guns required for NCOWS. I stand by my comments regarding ?Tuning?.  This is philosophical, but to me, tuning is more than short stroke kits.  If you disassemble a gun that works fine to replace springs, hone any hint of a burr, hone the chambers of a shotgun to make shucking shells easier, etc. you are tuning.  There is nothing wrong with this, I have tuned my guns.  But it is another step between a FNG and old hands.

When I first started shooting NCOWS I ran an out of the box Cimarron 1873 and a Uberti cattleman I picked up at my local gun shop for a good price because they couldn't find any other buyer for the 44-40. I ran those two guns bone stock for two years and even came 4th one year in the open working cowboy class back then. That is saying a lot considering I'm slow as molasses on a cold winter day and no amount of action work will ever make me fast.

My point is that proves you don't need to do that action work you mention and now that I do action work to all of my guns I spend a total of about 30 dollars per gun and know quite a few gun plumbers that will do pretty much the same thing parts and all for 100 bucks. Far from the 1000 you mention and as I said above it's not necessary. Sure they may feel better and more importantly it's better for the gun but you mislead people saying they are going to have to spend that kind of money getting into the game.

I also started with an outfit from Hamilton Dry goods for 69 dollars which they still offer, put on a pair of my round toe work boots and reshaped an old hat. Good to go with my outfit for 69 dollars. I'm a long time leatherworker so obviously built my own gun rig but you can get into a custom holster and belt pretty reasonable depending on what a person wants, there are several makers that are NCOWS members that will help a fella out.

So yes I don't deny it's still an investment buying a couple guns and some accessories but please don't discourage potential new members by making it sound like they will have to take out a second mortgage to come out and have fun.

[Dave T]

Some of the comments, my own included, that seem more directed toward SASS are in my opinion still relevant. Where do most of the NCOWS shooters come from but SASS clubs. If SASS folds its tent and goes home how long, as a stand alone entity, will NCOWS last?

I didn't hear about NCOWS until about a year after I had to give up CAS when I started my own business. Had I know about it I think I would have joined you guys and tried to find another way to finance my business other than selling my 19th Century firearms. I would probably have been the only NCOWS member in AZ at the time but I would have signed up because I have been a Western history student my entire adult life and then some.

The point about the younger generations not being taught history is, I wonder how many serious students of the settling of the West are out there among the 30 and under crowd. Apparently not many given the trends we are discussing.

YMMV,
Dave

[OklaTom]

Some of the comments, my own included, that seem more directed toward SASS are in my opinion still relevant. Where do most of the NCOWS shooters come from but SASS clubs. If SASS folds its tent and goes home how long, as a stand alone entity, will NCOWS last?

True, many of our members are people that leave SASS for something a bit more historical, without the arms race. But many more have never been associated with SASS. NCOWS has been a stand alone organization since it was founded in 1994. Rules have evolved some over time, but one thing has been constant - so called race guns are not permitted. Yes, you can, if you like, slick the action up a bit. Even change out the springs for lighter weight. But that is about it. Enough has been said about the outfit and how inexpensive it can be. But, should SASS fold its tent (an unlikely situations, since speed shooting draws a lot of people to it, be it Western, 3-Gun, IPSC, or any of the other tacticool styles), NCOWS will still be there, as long as there are folks interested in the historical aspect.

Back to the purpose of this thread, we do need to get more young people interested and participating. The general membership is aging. Without new, younger people coming in, NCOWS would head the way of the dinosaur as we get old and begin to reach end of life. But the same could be said about SASS - its membership is also aging. It has a larger base of members than NCOWS, and as I mentioned, the highly competitive speed shooting has its draw for certain people. Having served for years as the National Secretary for NCOWS, I am quite familiar with the demographics of new members. Many join for the magazine (it is much nicer than a newsletter). Many join just because they agree with our principles. Many never even join a shooting posse. And many come in as seniors (over 60) as a new hobby. Then again, many younger people join, even with their families. Lately, I have processed new memberships for grandchildren of long term members. I think we will hang in there.

[River City John]

One thing to point out as mentioned, copious amounts of "field-tested" gear, clothing and firearms are readily available because individuals are always upgrading, recycling due to weight change, or just thinning out their closet or gun safe.
Most clubs have regular table sales of member's used stuff, and the prices are at a bargain. 

Add to this, every club would grant generous allowance while a newbie assembles their kit. They'll even loan stuff to get you started.
It's not like we stand back to see if someone new has the strength and endurance, the wherewithal, to scramble up over the rim of the canyon to join us. Hell, we're reaching a helping hand over the edge or throwing down ropes to help you make it. We all want new converts to the sport.


RCJ

[Johnny McCrae]

All that being said, NCOWS matches tend to be less of a race anyway, by virtue of their rules against any modifications beyond springs and some polishing.

This may a bit off topic but I'd to add this to Oklahoma Tom's fine comments. At the 2016 NCOWS Midwest Regionals Red Lodge Rambler shot one 1858 Remington Revolver in a two pistol class and loaded an extra cylinder on the clock. Beartooth Billy shot a clean match using four Firearms that were all over one hundred years old. Those Gentlemen were fun to watch.

For my Grandson who has shot NCOWS and SASS matches with me, I bought him a pair of $10.00 black jeans from Walmart. I removed one of the back pockets and belt loops then installed suspender buttons.

[Coffinmaker]

First a CAVEAT:  I'm not an NCOWS member.  I have however, been playing in the SASS game for well over 20 years and was, for most of 20 years a CAS Gunsmith (I retired).  I have always felt the technology race was somehow "wrong" even though I made a pile of money doing it.  SO:

The CAS games are suffering the same fate.  The days of Saturday matinees, Saturday morning reruns of old Westerns and Prime Time TV Western programs are long gone.  Those of us who grew up playing Cowboys and Indians throughout the neighborhood are now ..... some older.  We're just getting too old to play.  The young today are growing up on electronic screen games and Virtual Reality games.  No interest in what we do.

Because of the above, the CAS games we play, both SASS and NCOWS are slowly dying.  Kicking, screaming and clawing off the cliff, but dying none the less.  Not enough infusion of young folks that wish to do what we do.  It's an inexorable failing, something like the demise of the Glaciers.  And it's a crying shame.

[SgtRickHenry]

 No Sir, it won?t ever be over! As long as we keep showing up and shooting matches, it will keep going. As long as there is one father, or one grandfather, bringing his kid to the matches and teaching her or him to shoot, it will not be over.  I know this because that?s me doing just that.

With all due respect, we must not let ourselves get discouraged when participation seems to slow down. We need to have faith and each of do our best to keep it going. Maybe we will have a small turnout sometimes, but at other times we will have more attendees. The idea is that if you believe in this and if you enjoy it then let?s keep working at it, and at recruiting new members.

Frankly, I have personally enjoyed more quality family time at our matches and other NCOWS events than nearly anything else we do, and my kids feel likewise. Please consider coming to a match and please consider joining NCOWS. You don?t have to shoot fast to have fun shooting, but if you like to shoot fast, some our folks will happily give you a run for your money.

As always, I remain,

Yr. obt. svt.,

Sgt. Henry, Marshal
SC Old West Shootists
(An NCOWS posse)

[1961MJS]

Hi,

I shoot at both Oklahoma City Gun Club and Tri-City Gun Club.  Many of the youngin's are shooting a similar course of fire to SASS, but using Glocks and pistol caliber carbines of some sort.  I'm also amazed at the number of shooters in High Power.  I never got into it because the (then) closest high power range was 2 hours away. 

Just another $0.02.

[Major 2]

never to old or to infirmed

[ira scott]

I hope there wasn't anything downrange for a long ways. Looked pretty irresponsible to me to not have someone competent spotting Grandma. I am glad they got her involved, but you have to be safe.

My .02,  Mike

[medic15al]

There is an NCOWS posse near me, but my problem is expense of clothing, leather, and long guns.

I really want to join. Clothing for me may be difficult due to size and I am retired medically so pension is..... weak.

I have the handguns, and reloading set up and have been eyeing this for a bit.

[River City John]

If size you mean 2XL shirts, vests and pants in 42+", let me know. I'll donate some quality "field-tested" duds.

RCJ

[medic15al]

I appreciate it River City John!

But I'm meaning 4 or 5x depending on maker.....

Hey...2 years ago I wore 8x....

[River City John]

Good for you, medic15al!

Like many, my closet is a testimonial to weight fluctuation. I likely have 3XL in shirts and vests, and up to 50"-52" in pants. Offer still stands seeing as you are slimming down. Maybe we'll meet somewhere in the middle soon . . .
So let me know.

Are you handy with needle and thread? I may still have the odd pattern good for all sizes, and some bolts of fabric I'll never get to. Plus, if you check out the second-hand clothing shops, there are lots of clothing begging alterations that will be good for period look.
There have been several articles in The Shootist about altering modern clothing to look period. I don't have them bookmarked, but one was making a sack coat.

Here's Marlan Ingram's excellent article on creating the look.
http://ncows.com/library/pdf/CreatingTheOutfit.pdf

Our Secretary, I believe, was working with someone who was putting all past articles, with index, in The Shootist online for reference. Perhaps someone can chime in on whether this has been done.

RCJ

[Robert Swartz]

Just noticed this thread. I too, am not an NCOWS member. The BP club I belong to is the umbrella to four shooting clubs. Three are BP clubs, two lost their ranges. The other is an NCOWS club. So, by agreement belonging to one club gives you open invitation to shoot with any of the other clubs. I have only been to two matches. This past weekend was my first one shooting. Now, since I have been involved with BP shooting and historical reenacting since the early 90's. I'm probably not your typical first timer. I had enough clothing and my buddy had a spare sabre belt and a couple of holsters that I borrowed to start. I confess, I sold all my CW stuff quite a few years back. In the interim being the type I am. I purchased a pair of 1884 trousers and an 1874 Infantry blouse from S&S Firearms. Then bought an 1873 Trapdoor that I had been eyeing for awhile and an Uberti SAA that fell in my lap. I do have a couple of reenactor grade brass framed (yeah I already hear the chuckles) BP revolvers that I plan to use in the future, I'm a glutton for punishment. My point, I spent some money to do this but I didn't have to. I heard mention that even local clubs should adhere to the Talleybook. I wanted to be dressed and at least look like I fit in. I have seen guys show up in modern jeans, cowboy boots, tennis shoes and t shirts. They weren't made unwelcome, turned away or not allowed to shoot. If you are interested, I say go. You might be pleasantly surprised.

[Professor Marvel]

Just noticed this thread. I too, am not an NCOWS member. The BP club I belong to is the umbrella to four shooting clubs. Three are BP clubs, two lost their ranges. The other is an NCOWS club. So, by agreement belonging to one club gives you open invitation to shoot with any of the other clubs. .....

Thank you Robert -
time to smell the burnt toast.
If we are to survive, this is how we must do it. Regroup and cooperate.
We grew up on cowboy films, tv etc. Some on real farms and ranches.
Kids now are growing up on computer devices.
If they are aren't in a rural setting they almost certainly won't be shooting.
yhs
prof marvel

[Coffinmaker]

PLUS ONE too Professor Marvel.

Don't look now.  Butt.  CAS and NCOWS and SASS are slowly dying.  Kicking and Screaming, but dyeing none the less.  No "B" Westerns.  No proliferation of Old West movies.  No Saturday Matinees.
No Westerns/Cowboys on TV.  Rather than being saturated with "Cowboy" and "Westerns" the youth are sitting on "something" with a Game Controller.  Sorry.  This tirade is the same thing the Prof. said just more Verbose.  Burma Shave

Hide and Watch

[Ridge Runner]

I'm just living the life as long as I can.  Over the past few years, a number of folks locally have expressed an interest in NCOWS, but alas, when it was time to put up or shut up, we never heard from them again. And these were not youngsters.  We are still scratching our gray and bald heads trying to figure out what turned them off.  I'm told the same is happening in most of the other reenactment groups.

[medic15al]

And this is sad as I'm really wanting to get in it. I need to go to next shoot and see what I can do.