Oh my! The start of a new era...

Tuolumne Lawman · October 11, 2019, 08:38:57 AM

Coffinmaker · October 12, 2019, 10:11:38 AM

I too, have oft explained to "others" that "Lunacy" is not a far journey for me

Tuolumne Lawman · October 12, 2019, 05:00:53 PM

Well, after much thought, I think I will go with the .44 Colt rounds for my reloads, instead of the .44 Russian. All the ammo I have is .44 Russian, but .44 Colt brass is no more expensive. I feel better about using .44 Colt in the Open Top (and the R-M) than using .44 Russian in the 1860 R-M (and Open Top). While .44 Colt is certainly correct for the R-M, on the other hand, .44 Russian is less correct for the Open Top (since only a few were made.

I think it would be more feasible for a Open Top cylinder to be reamed for a .44 Colt (cylinder size big enough), it would be impossible to re-chamber (historically speaking) a R-M for .44 Russian because the rims are too big for an R-M cylinder.

It is a silly thing, I know, but.....

Professor Marvel · October 12, 2019, 06:13:14 PM

Quote from: Coffinmaker on October 12, 2019, 10:11:38 AM
I too, have oft explained to "others" that "Lunacy" is not a far journey for me

I'm not crazy .... I'm just a carrier!

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman on October 12, 2019, 05:00:53 PM
Well, after much thought, I think I will go with the .44 Colt rounds for my reloads, instead of the .44 Russian. All the ammo I have is .44 Russian, but .44 Colt brass is no more expensive. I feel better about using .44 Colt in the Open Top (and the R-M) than using .44 Russian in the 1860 R-M (and Open Top). While .44 Colt is certainly correct for the R-M, on the other hand, .44 Russian is less correct for the Open Top (since only a few were made.

I think it would be more feasible for a Open Top cylinder to be reamed for a .44 Colt (cylinder size big enough), it would be impossible to re-chamber (historically speaking) a R-M for .44 Russian because the rims are too big for an R-M cylinder.

It is a silly thing, I know, but.....

Not really silly, .44 Colt makes more sense considering both number of .44 russian produced and the the rim size.

Tuolumne Lawman · October 12, 2019, 10:29:37 PM

As for barrel diameter, I am guessing a .451" bore Richards-Mason barrel could be fitted to an Open top, since they both use the same S lug barrel assemblies and the same arbor/wedge system.

Tuolumne Lawman · October 13, 2019, 05:35:45 PM

I ordered some more Starline 44 Colt brass from Buffalo Arms and some .430 diameter 210 grain RNFP slugs from Missouri Bullet Company. While I like the look of the conical 246 grain .44 Special slugs Bear Creek sells, they are about $15 more /500 and while looking correct, they are heavier than the 208- 210 grain loadings that were common. I may even be able to use the same bullet for reloading .44-40s for my HRA 1860 Henry. I have been loading .428s, but it would be nice to load one slug for both.

Coffinmaker · October 14, 2019, 10:19:22 AM

Ah well .... NO. Or .... Maybe. Depends on how much surgery you want to do. If I were wanting to set up an Open Top to run Hysterical more correct 44 Colt with Heal Base .451 bullets, It's actually quite simple.

Start with a .45 chambered Open Top. Add a .44 Spl/Colt/Russian cylinder. Ream out the cylinder of the .44 Spl cylinder to give a through bore at case diameter. Done.

Coffinmaker · October 14, 2019, 10:41:09 AM

And a quick trip to shop reveals .... TA DA. If in your case you are starting with .44 chambered Open Top guns, just order up a .45 barrel (or a pair). No barrel fitting required except to correct the barrel to Arbor fit. Use a Manson throating reamer with a .44 pilot and cut the throat out of the chambers.

Easy Peasy.

The barrels for the Richards/Mason and Open Top are some different. While doable, the simplest swap here is to use Open Top 45 barrels. The ejector assemblies swap across ALL the different Open Top chambering(s).

Tuolumne Lawman · October 20, 2019, 09:43:12 PM

WOW!

I just finished "peaceful's End of Track" annual match at Railroad Flat, CA. Shot 120 rounds from the .44 Open Top and Richards Mason, and another 20 shots in side match. Absolutely CLEAN! Nary a miss! I pointed and hit. The Open Top Colts are the most natural pointing single actions. I cobbled together 150 rounds of an assortment of .44 Russian 246 grain over black powder and 200 grain over Trail boss, and an odd assortment of .44 Specials. I did not have time to load any of my 44 Colt brass before the match. I'll post some action shots tomorrow.

Tuolumne Lawman · October 21, 2019, 10:55:31 AM

The 1872 in the wild!

1860 Richards Mason in the wild!

Crow Choker · October 21, 2019, 12:50:15 PM

Good pics T. Lawman! I think you made the right decision to go with 44 Colt for the OT and will be happy with the round. MY OT and Richards II are both chambered for 44 Spec, but rarely shoot that round in them anymore. Starting out I reserved 44 Spec brass for smokeless and 44 Colt for black, mostly for ID purposes. Enjoy the 44 Colt with 25-26 grains of FF with Mav Dutchman bullet, very accurate, mild recoil, and close to PC if that means anything. Tried some FF black once in 44 Special, but saw no advantage. Have never tried smokeless in 44 Colt, but may give it a try some day. Have never shot/reloaded for 44 Russian and have no plans to do so. Get along very well with the 44 Colt, can't see any reason to shoot 44 Russ. The 44 Colt rounds shoot both well in aimed and point shooting-recoil isn't anymore than 38 Special wadcutters. IMO, shooting the Russians vs the 44 Colt (unless revolver is chambered for Russ) is like buying a Ruger Single Six 22 revolver and shooting nothing but 22 shorts in it. The OT 44 Colt 4 3/4" barrel I bought not ago also loves the 44 Colts I reload for the two 44's I previously mentioned. Enjoy your posts. CC

Tuolumne Lawman · October 21, 2019, 01:16:13 PM

I had a bunch of 44 Russian loaded from when I had a No. 3 Russian. I have .44 Colt brass, but did not have time to get the lead to load it up before the match with the short notice on it all coming together for me. I already have the dies set up to load .44 Colt, now that I picked up some 205s (most original .44 Colt loadings were 210 + or - except the Frankford Arsenal .44 Martins).

I really love the charcoal fire blue on the Richards Mason! I think I will leave the fire blue Army grip on it after all.

Abilene · October 21, 2019, 05:13:17 PM

Nice shooting! And I do love charcoal blue

Did you notice any difference if feel between Army and Navy grips while shooting?

Tuolumne Lawman · October 21, 2019, 05:49:32 PM

I have to say I honestly did not notice any difference while shooting. I like the looks and feel of the Navy grip better, but when shooting, it did not make any difference. When shooting regular size SASS targets, I tend to shoot duelist (unless my hand camps - sucks being old) but on the tiny targets we shoot at our home club, I use two hands.

The 210 grain .430 were out of stock, so I picked up a box of 205 grain .428s at the match. That's what I use for my HRA 1860 Henry .44-40. I figure for the kind of shooting I do with the pistol, a .428 won't be any different than a .429/30". It will be nice to have one bullet for both.

Crow Choker · October 21, 2019, 05:53:34 PM

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman on October 21, 2019, 01:16:13 PM
I really love the charcoal fire blue on the Richards Mason! I think I will leave the fire blue Army grip on it after all.

Okeydoke! Was wondering too how the fire blue would look with the other 'basic blue' of the rest of my OT, but probably not be that much of a clash, get used to it, but hey, enjoy the hogleg!!!

Tuolumne Lawman · October 21, 2019, 06:06:31 PM

I have to say that I feel better shooting an Open Top and R-M in .44 Colt, than I did shooting the ones I had in .45. Even though the .451 bullet of the Schofield is the same diameter and weight of the original .44 Colt, stuffing a .45 case in the Richards type I that I had , or the pair of Open Tops, just seems...unseemly~

Tuolumne Lawman · October 23, 2019, 01:56:27 PM

My Babies: my 2005 vintage Cimarron 5.5" barrel 1860 Richards-Mason .44 Colt/Russian (only), with charcoal fire blue and steel Army Grip, and my 2019 vintage Cimarron 7.5" barrel 1872 Open top .44 Russian/Colt/Special.

On a side note, Jeff Hoffman of Black Hills sent me the very last case of .44 Colt they in their warehouse. They discontinued it, as .44 Russian and .44 Special outstripped the .44 Colt in demand. When I was talking to Jeff this morning on the phone, he said while they have stopped producing .44 Colt, it does not mean they will never do a run again - if there was demand.

I really, really like their .44 Colt better than their Russian or Special. The .44 Colt has a 230 grain bullet, that seems to give more thump than the 200 or 210 grainers in their Russian and Special.

Drydock · October 25, 2019, 10:02:43 AM

Just to add, for the game I play, the .44 Colt with it's smaller rim makes for easier ejection and faster reloads. Just a great Single Action revolver round.

Tuolumne Lawman · October 25, 2019, 10:26:30 AM

The original .44 Colt was a great round. Its Frankford Arsenal loading was a 225 grain,

.451" heeled bullet over 30 grains of powder. That put it tied with the Army's standardized downloaded .45 Colt ammo. It had a 250 with 30 grains of powder. (40 grains was too much in the Ordnance board's opinion, and even most commercial loads, I have read, were only 35 grains).

Even the commercial .44 Colt loads had a 210 grain bullet with about 26 grains of powder - close to a .45 Schofield and way ahead of the .44 Russian and .44 American.

The .44 Colt is just so....sexy!

Tuolumne Lawman · October 29, 2019, 10:18:48 PM

Wow, I like shooting these Open Tops (well 1860 RM and 1872 OT, but to me they are both just "Open Tops") so much, they want me to shoot even more! Usually I just shoot my local match that has two or three rifle/pistol/shotgun stages, and 15 shots of cowboy trap.

Now, once a month, I am going to travel the 1 hour and 45 minutes down the hill to shoot a standard SASS style match: 60 rounds pistol, 60 rifle, and 25 shotgun, so I can shoot my OTs more... between factory and reloads I have 600 rounds of .44 Colt, 400 rounds of.44 Russian, and another 400 of .44 Special I plan on using if I get the reamer!

They are just so much fun to shoot!