Kind of Off Topic, Heavy Lead Loads

[Professor Marvel]

Ok folks, we need more chat here, so here we go.

And, Since I am after slow, heavy lead loads, this can cross over into CAS...

I would like to get opinions and etc on CCW loadings.

I myself am inclined to Heavy Soft Lead Hollowpoints ( or flatpoints)  ( or hollow flatpoints)
especially

1) the old "FBI Load" of  .38 special 158 gr. +P lead Hollowpoint,
2) The old .38 special 200 grain flatnose
3) Heavy Soft Lead .45 ACP  loads  ( flatpoint or hollowpoint)
4) Soft Lead .45 Colt Loads

The .38 special  don't seem to be available anymore. It seems Remington and Federal got out of that niche?
And the only Soft Lead .45 ACP or .45 Colt loads appear to be Downloaded Cowboy Action ....

Sooooo that brings us to the question of replicating such loads ourselves, and using them for daily carry.

Any thoughts, opinions, discussion, etc?

BTW I am familiar with the "only carry storebought for liabilty blah blah blah".  Soooooo ....

yhs
;prof amrvel

[Abilene]

Can soft lead cause any feeding problems in the ACP, like from the bullet deforming when it hits the ramp, etc. ?

[Professor Marvel]

Can soft lead cause any feeding problems in the ACP, like from the bullet deforming when it hits the ramp, etc. ?

Good Question, but with a polished frame ramp and polished and matched barrel ramp I have not had
problems YET with "softish" (ie range lead) round nose or flat-point conical. like the Lee .452-230


I do need to test out pure lead or just a tish harder... both for function and expansion.

I want to try these in .45
200 gr   
255 gr   

and I am considering the Lee .358 200 gr to duplicate the very old police load, but it will need
deep seating and a careful load workup from known safe lower powder loads:
         

to get a HP, I start with My Forster HP pointing tool , and then am experimenting with nose-swaging methods to open it up.

So far I am starting with .38 158gr lead RN ( because it's known soft and on-hand) ,  no shooting tests yet ...

yhs
prof marvel

[Coffinmaker]

I use to shoot a rather NASTY CCW or in my case LE round.  A 255Gr Keith Type Semi-Wadcutter over some H110.  I don't remember the exact load.  It performed rather exemplary on human type targets.  Ran the load in both my 1911 Duty/Carry gun and a Revolver, also for carry.

What/Whom ever I hit with it immediately lost all interest in hostility.

[Coffinmaker]

I'm sorry Perfesser 

I completely forgot to mention .... when it comes to social situations, I am and always have been a proponent of Large, Heavy and Flat Nose Bullets.  Since I am a proponent of big heavy social gatherings, I also prefer to carry something with a little weight to it.  A 1911 is my favorite.  To date, no one has come up with anything superior to Mr. Brownings antiquated design.

[Delmonico]

If you ever need that kind of data for a Ruger in 32 mag I will tell you how to do it, but won't post my load on-line.

But it takes the Lyman 311316 FN that weighs 122 gr out of my mould, to 1250 fps.

Don't should like that much but when you figure sectional density you realise it goes in very deep.

It drops out after firing on any Single Six I know of it being used in.

It will not work in one of those messed up trigger job guns that will only fire certain primers cause it uses a standard Winchester small rife primer as a spark plug.

[Dave T]

prof,

I would suggest you stay away from the 200g 38 Special. I was the chief firearms instructor for my department the last 6 years before retiring. As such I researched as many officer involved shootings as I could find information on. The 200g "police load" did not have a good track record.

If you want to pursue a "heavy" 38 Special load trying 170g to 180g cast bullets would be a better choice. Even then bullets weighing over 158/160 grains are best suited to the 38 Special's big brother, the 357 Mag.

YMMV,
Dave

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks Del, you are getting some screaming performance out of that little 32 mag!

Dave, thanks for the realworld input. There has been a lot of jabber and conjecture regarding the
*heavy for caliber* lead projectiles, and it is good to get actual data. Loading those things in a .38 spcl would require careful lower powder formulas, not to mention accomodation of the deeper seating, and I cannot expect safe loads to get past 500 fps... and perhaps bounce off the target!

Prof Marvel

[Gus Walker]

   In 38 special i load a 158 grain lead rnfp,,,on top of a compressed load of Goex....good thumpability,,,lol

[Professor Marvel]

  In 38 special i load a 158 grain lead rnfp,,,on top of a compressed load of Goex....good thumpability,,,lol

AH My Good Gus -
That is dandy in genreal , and does promote "lighting up the night" if lit off in a dark parking lot. The story is related that
The Lovely Wife of Dutch Bill, aka The Mad Monk , once scared off a whole flock of Juvenile Delinquents by firing a BP round
- ( 12 ga or Hawken muzzleloader) the thunder and lightning lit up the night and scared em all off.

But I fear it would not be so harmonious out of a 2" snubby or indoors....

yhs
Prof Marvel

[Delmonico]

Thanks Del, you are getting some screaming performance out of that little 32 mag!


Prof Marvel

Basically 327 S&W performance which was never chambered in weaker guns like the Mag was.  327 uses a longer case to keep it from clambering in H&R and Charter Arms.

If I  run across a local Smith that has the 327 reamer it might be worth having it done so I could use that brass also.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

I use to shoot a rather NASTY CCW or in my case LE round.  A 255Gr Keith Type Semi-Wadcutter over some H110.  I don't remember the exact load.  It performed rather exemplary on human type targets.  Ran the load in both my 1911 Duty/Carry gun and a Revolver, also for carry.

What/Whom ever I hit with it immediately lost all interest in hostility.

Since you're touting the 1911 (Love it) and a 255 gr. SWC, (Love it too!) I assume you're referring to the 45 ACP. Am I understanding correctly that you loaded H110 in a 45 ACP???

CHT

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks Coffin, Cholla -
I forgot to reply to Freind Coffinmaker....

I myself have only used Unique in .45 Colt and .45 ACP.
I did try the commercial 255 gr .45 colt Lead Kieth, in .45 ACP ... the recoil was substantial, but accuracy was good.

Coffin - I appreciate the real-world field report.

Just to update, I found a source for the most excellent Buffalo Bore cartridges.
I bit the bullet and found Buds has the object of my desire:

Buffalo Bore Ammo 20C/20 Handgun 38 Special Soft Cast Hollowcavity 158 GR
standard pressure, low flash, specifically designed for snubbies 

yhs
prof marvel

[wildman1]

At one time I had a '73 in 45 Colt 30" bbl that was dismal as a target rifle. So I developed a load one at a time cartridge (They were to long to feed using the lever) I loaded them over the top and could shoot a 1 1/2" group at 125 yds using stock open sights that came on the rifle. Velocity was about 600 fps and the bullet was a 45/70 405 grain govt. It was a BP load using Schuetzen 2F.
wM1

[Bunk Stagnerg]

as much as i hate to do it I guess this is the last word...again

[Darto]

Three videos made my choice in .38 special carry. 'Bout the cheapest did best (3rd video).
Paul Harrell, youtube playlist, .38 Special Standard Pressure

[August]

Looks like it's time to re-read "Six-guns" by Keith.  He knocked down all the tall grass on this one a long time ago.

[Professor Marvel]

Thanks Darto -

I appreciate it!.
The last video gave great info on the Buffalo Bore .38's I purchased.
By All reports they were "dandy", but Harrell gave wonderful real-world data.
Looks like those really are the way to to go for a short barrel .38 spcl.

yhs
prof marvel