Antique mall trapdoor

[Drydock]

Found this at an antique mall, half buried under a pile of society swords.  When the lady pulled it off the shelf for me and I got my first good look at it, the first thing that popped into my head was "Jaeger".  My bore light showed a nice shiny barrel with sharp rifling

It's mostly M1884, serial number puts it in the 1st quarter of 1888.  An M1879 rifle sight, and the front sight appears to be hammered out of an old (wheat or earlier) penny.  An old conversion, but well done really,  probably started as a rifle with a bent barrel, someone did a lot of work to the stock to get everything to fit.  Barrel is 20" from breech to muzzle.  The sights appear dead on at 50 yards so far.  Trigger is good, 5 lbs or so with just a touch of creep.  A couple of minor cracks, in non load bearing areas.

Waite and Ernst have pictures of at least 3 experimental carbines that look a LOT like this, I was surprised to find.  For $300 (!) A fun walking around rifle.  It handles really well, with the balance point right beneath the block hinge.  Very lively in the hands, the longer stock feeling better in the forehand as it shoulders.

Maybe someday I'll take it down and make a heavy barrel target rifle with it . . .

[Sagebrush Burns]

Well, didja buy it?!

[Silver Creek Slim]

Very nice.

Slim

[Drydock]

Yes, I bought it!

[Jake C]

That's a fun rifle, I'm jealous of you Drydock! I hope it treats you well. 

[Sagebrush Burns]

Hope it shoots as good as it looks!  That one has some serious panache!

[cowolf]

an elegant weapon for a more civilized age

[River City John]

And it would make a well balanced club as a last resort . . .

[smoke]

That is cool !  I would have bought it in a heartbeat at the price.

I think S&S stocks a repro of one of the experimental stock.  I thought it would be cool to clone one. 

[Dusty Tagalon]

Another thought, grappling hook gun?
Dusty

[1961MJS]

Hi

No reason to think it isn't experimental, but if memory serves a lot of the old pirate flintlock pistols of the 1920's on were cut down Trapdoors. 

http://ww2.rediscov.com/spring/VFPCGI.exe?IDCFile=/spring/DETAILS.IDC,SPECIFIC=8695,DATABASE=objects

Dang found it purdy easy.  Maybe someone in Hollywood cut them down for other purposes.

Later

[Drydock]

Oh, it is clearly NOT an experimental! (I could only wish!) It is clearly a home made cut down rifle, I would guess done sometime before WW2.  But it does resemble (By accident!) a couple of Springfield experimental carbines pictured on page 156 of Waite and Ernst's "Trapdoor Springfield". 

RCJ, yeppur, it makes a dandy club!  I can spin it pretty good too!

[1961MJS]

Oh, it is clearly NOT an experimental! (I could only wish!) It is clearly a home made cut down rifle, I would guess done sometime before WW2.  But it does resemble (By accident!) a couple of Springfield experimental carbines pictured on page 156 of Waite and Ernst's "Trapdoor Springfield". 

RCJ, yeppur, it makes a dandy club!  I can spin it pretty good too!

spin, ooh no, Drydock Wayne.

[Sagebrush Burns]

Looked at the pics again - first time I've ever seen a Manlicher stocked trap-door!

[Dusty Tagalon]

Not Manicler, forward band has groove in front for keeper, so definitely cut.
Dusty

[Pitspitr]

I have owned 2 Trapdoors that had barrels bent at the front barrel band. (Bent during use as a spade with the trowel bayonet attached...that's my story and I'm sticking to it!)

Maybe the pervious owner thought it would be easier to cut the barrel off behind the bend than to straighten it?

[Drydock]

That would be my guess.  This is very much a bitsa rifle:  Barrel, receiver and block are 1884. Serial # to 1888.  I suspect but cannot prove that the lock is also off the same rifle.  The stock cartouche is long gone, but the fit would indicate it belongs with this action.  The sights are not correct though, and the lock bolts are M1868 or earlier!  The Lower barrel band is a mystery, the upper band probably 1884. 

The lower band is intriguing:  the only split lower bands I can find on Trapdoors are on experimentals.  don't believe this is, but where did it come from?  Is it a Sharps mid band, a civilian aftermarket band?  We'll never know.  But it does make me determined to replace the upper band with a plain one, then fit a sling swivel in the butt, to fully duplicate the experimental carbine shown by Waite and Ernst.  ( I think.  The pictures are shaved so you cannot actually see a swivel on the butt, but why have a split lower sling band?) 

That is the one nice thing about a cut down like this:  You can play with it.  I'll bring it along.

[smoke]

I think you need to call that one an "Engineer's Carbine"

[Drydock]

It was pointed out to me at the Muster that the stock is of the early "Long Wristed" pattern.  An interesting collection of parts.

[Jake C]

I can't get over how cool this is. My Trapdoor had the stock bubba'd a bit, and a part of me really wants to make it into this. I won't do it, but I'm tempted to.