1862 Cimarron .380?

Tuolumne Lawman · May 08, 2019, 11:55:08 AM

Looking at the ridiculous long barreled .380 "pocket Pistol", I wonder if it could be re-chambered to .38 short Colt. I seem to remember it having a much smaller rim and case than the 38 S&W, as well as a hollow base .358" bullet in modern loadings, as opposed the the .361" solid bullet of the .38 S&W. Do that and chop the barrel to 3" or 3.5" and it would be a slick little gun.

Since this is s new gun built from the ground up, why didn't they make it in.38 Short Colt or.38 S&W in the first place!

Abilene · May 08, 2019, 01:04:21 PM

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman on May 08, 2019, 11:55:08 AM
...Since this is s new gun built from the ground up, why didn't they make it in.38 Short Colt or.38 S&W in the first place!

I think we've covered this before. My take is that this gun is not aimed at the CAS market. In fact, it may be completely useless for CAS if there is no way to put the hammer down between chambers. The average non-CAS shooter is a lot more familiar with .380.

Major 2 · May 08, 2019, 01:31:04 PM

I don't believe 38 Short Colt or 38 S&W is commercially loaded , or if it is it's very small runs... .380 is everywhere.

The gun is quaint, but it will be I suspect, a market flop....

Tuolumne Lawman · May 08, 2019, 03:05:01 PM

Remington still produces .38 S&W as a limited regular. Fiocchi or S&B also produces it. Remington was the last to produce .38 Short Colt, and it used hollow base .358" bullets instead of the heeled bullet of the originals for the .375" bore

Coffinmaker · May 08, 2019, 03:41:18 PM

PLUS ONE to Major 2.

I don't see a market. A few individuals perhaps but not enough market to actually justify the thing. I suspect the gun may well have been intended for the European market and was brought here as an after thought. I personally would not expect to see it in anyones catalogue for any length of time. I personally see it as pretty much useless.

Tuolumne Lawman · May 08, 2019, 03:46:42 PM

An 1849 Colt or 1863 Remmie in.31 caliber works perfect with an R&D .32 S&W conversion cylinder works like champ.

Tuolumne Lawman · May 08, 2019, 04:02:59 PM

Hmmmm..... Maybe an 1862 Colt 36 with a 3" bobbed barrel, and a Kirst .38 gated Konverter, shooting hollow base bullets.

Abilene · May 08, 2019, 04:17:43 PM

About a half dozen years ago or so, Cimarron was talking to Pietta about making a pocket Remington in .22. I don't think that project got started, though.

Galloway · May 08, 2019, 08:26:31 PM

Would it be possible to handload blackpowder 38 short colts and safley fire in a 380 chamber?

Tuolumne Lawman · May 08, 2019, 10:47:10 PM

,38 Short Colt has a .379" case, the .380 has a .374"case. Rims would also have to be scalloped as they would be too big

Galloway · May 08, 2019, 11:10:50 PM

I think i can make that work thanks!

OklaTom · May 28, 2019, 11:34:31 AM

I have one of the new 1862 Conversions. Comes with a 6" police barrel only. There may be a 3 1/2" barrel available for it later, but that has been put on a back burner for now. And it does have a safety hammer. The hammer has a striker plate in the face of it that when the trigger is pulled, it pushes forward, like the firing pin on a Uberti Cattleman New Model. The firing pin is spring loaded in the ring. When the trigger is released, the striker plate retracts, allowing the firing pin to retract into the ring. This is a good thing for carrying it fully loaded. Another thing is the arbor is turned down a bit on the end and a rather stout coil spring fits over that rebate and into the barrel lug. I am not positive on the purpose of that spring, but speculate it is to help absorb some of the snappiness of the 380 in the small frame open top.

I note that there is insufficient ratchet to make it a 38 Short Colt. So I set out to figure how I can make it shoot a more vintage caliber like 38 Short Colt. Basically, you turn the rim on a 38 SC down to 0.405" and it will clear the ratchet, but still have enough rim for reloading. Unless you want to ream the chambers to remove the 380 shoulder, you also need to trim the brass to 0.680". I chose not to modify the revolver at all. So I trim the brass. It kind of ends up a "380 Auto Rim" with a 38 Short Colt head stamp. Works like a champ.

Why did I go to all the trouble for the modified brass? 380 ACP in not an allowable cartridge in NCOWS, but 38 Short Colt is. By the trim and rim, I can now shoot properly marked rounds in it for NCOWS, and by not modifying the revolver at all, I can shoot it as designed for other applications.

Major 2 · May 28, 2019, 11:48:48 AM

Main match, Brian ?

OklaTom · May 28, 2019, 12:17:26 PM

Quote from: Major 2 on May 28, 2019, 11:48:48 AM
Main match, Brian ?

Probably not - that ?hammer down on an empty chamber? will get you, unless, like me, you have no trouble with reloading on the clock. Simple enough to load 4, then add 1 when the timer goes. Otherwise, this is a very cool side match pistol.

As NCOWS Judge, loading 4 then 1 on the clock is the only way I?d allow it. And I would not allow 380 ACP in an NCOWS match at all, since it is a 20th century caliber for auto pistols. I did choose the modified brass path to leave the revolver factory though.

Tornado · May 28, 2019, 12:34:52 PM

Quote from: OklaTom on May 28, 2019, 11:34:31 AM
I have one of the new 1862 Conversions.

So are they out for sale now or did you get a pre-production test piece?

OklaTom · May 28, 2019, 12:40:49 PM

Quote from: Tornado on May 28, 2019, 12:34:52 PM
So are they out for sale now or did you get a pre-production test piece?

They will be out for sale soon. I am a Cimarron Dealer, and placed an order for two as soon as they were announced. Cimarron only got a few dozen in the first shipment, and they have about 5 times the number they received on back order from dealers, so they will still be scarce for a while.

Abilene · May 28, 2019, 12:51:49 PM

Great info, Brian, thanks! Are you thinking of cutting your barrel?

OklaTom · May 28, 2019, 02:06:39 PM

Quote from: Abilene on May 28, 2019, 12:51:49 PM
Great info, Brian, thanks! Are you thinking of cutting your barrel?

No, sir! I really like the graceful lines of the 6? barrel. Same reason all of my Cimarron Conversions and Open Tops are 7 1/2? or 8?. The lines just look sleeker. It so happens I already have a holster rig for it - I had a two gun rig made years ago for the 1862 percussion revolvers. I am open, after getting enough experience of how it shoots, to replacing the small cone with a 51 cone if it shoots too high.

Major 2 · May 28, 2019, 02:49:04 PM

Quote from: OklaTom on May 28, 2019, 12:17:26 PM
Probably not - that ?hammer down on an empty chamber? will get you, unless, like me, you have no trouble with reloading on the clock. Simple enough to load 4, then add 1 when the timer goes. Otherwise, this is a very cool side match pistol.

As NCOWS Judge, loading 4 then 1 on the clock is the only way I?d allow it. And I would not allow 380 ACP in an NCOWS match at all, since it is a 20th century caliber for auto pistols. I did choose the modified brass path to leave the revolver factory though.

Very good Sir, as a former NCOWS Judge I Concur....

Johnson Barr · May 30, 2019, 06:05:15 AM

Ammo is available from Magtech. They produce Lead Round Nose cartridges in .32 S&W, .38 S&W and .380 ACP. .32 S&W Long is also available with SWC bullet.