Form a NCOWS Posse

[Rambling Rex]

There are none in the Pacific Northwest. Closest are California and Wyoming. Does NCOWS still do events with double action revolvers, semi-auto pistiols, and rifles of the first couple of decades of the 20th Century now that SASS has the Wild Bunch events using 1911's? I tried skimming through the rules on the NCOWS website but couldn't tell from the wording.

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy RR,

DA revolver from the period prior to 1900 and reproductions are allowed in any category except Pistoleer.  Some models that were introduced prior to 1900 and were produced in the early 20th Cen. are allowed.  They would be in the approved list at NOCWS.org .  Our rules require that the firearm must have originally been made for a black powder cartridge.  That eliminates most all 20th Century ones.  We do not have a "Wild Bunch" shoot as an approved NCOWS class.  Some local clubs may offer it as a side match.  Someone please correct me if I am wrong on any of this!

[Dr. Bob]

And I suppose you could use Starr DA's, if you can get them to work consistently in Pistoleer!

[Pancho Peacemaker]

There are none in the Pacific Northwest. Closest are California and Wyoming. Does NCOWS still do events with double action revolvers, semi-auto pistiols, and rifles of the first couple of decades of the 20th Century now that SASS has the Wild Bunch events using 1911's? I tried skimming through the rules on the NCOWS website but couldn't tell from the wording.

Rex,

Here's the direct wording on our firearm regulations:

7-2. No modern (post 1899) firearms will be allowed unless they are authentic reproductions of traditional firearms or very markedly resemble traditional firearms. Traditional firearms are defined as those manufactured prior to or during the era 1865-1899 and in documented use on the North American Frontier within that time period. Center-fire calibers may substitute for original rim-fire calibers in reproduction firearms. Reproduction firearms chambered in calibers not utilized in original models shall be allowed as long as such calibers are original to the period or are otherwise approved by the National Congress of Old West Shootists.

As you can see, we limit our approved firearms to the time from of 1865 to 1899.  We don't differentiate between single and double action in competition as long as said revolver has some provenance to the time period.

Regarding semi-autos:  We do not allow them since they do not fit the definition above.  Our Congress would allow a member to petition approval of such a firearm, provided the member could provide credible historic reference that such a firearm was in documented use on the North American Frontier.  To date, no such evidence has been produced.

[Will Ketchum]

From Pancho Peacemaker from another thread:

Similiar situation here in Texas.  There is a VERY strong SASS presence in the DFW/North Texas Area with some 10+ clubs within a 90 minute drive of the DFW metro area.  I am not anti-SASS by any means, but some shooters are growing weary of the super-close target arrays and the repetitive "10-10-4" order of fire that is the common stage scenario in SASS.

The spearhead of our NCOWS efforts was our SASS TG.  He presented NCOWS not as a competing entity, but an alternative shooting style.  Our club ran some "NCOWS based" matches to gauge interest.  The matches were spread by word of mouth and email.  We emphasized the target array (longer distances, more accuracy based) and more challenging order of fire.  We also addressed the "authenticity dogma" by emphasizing NCOWS "one year to authenticity" rule.  We also emphasized the working cowboy class which appeals to lots of folks, especially the newer shooters who don't have "all the guns" yet.

Some mythology we disspelled right off the top:

1)  Yes you can use gun carts (Most folks "heard" NCOWS outlaws them which is untrue)
2)  Yes you can use Rugers  (Again folks "heard" NCOWS outlaws Rugers.  You do need to explain the problems with the modern features of the Blackhawk and the "bisley" frame they sell.)
3)  No, there will be no "clothing police" checking you over at the parking lot.  Dress like you usually do for SASS when you come out.  Just remember that there is no "B-Western" class here.

Over the first year we became "official", folks who took to NCOWS have made the appropriate changes in their gear, leather, and attire to achieve the Level 1 authenticity.  It didn't take any arm twisting.  Shooters who wanted to be in the NCOWS game did the reading, asked questions, and made some changes (most of them very minor.)

The ideals of NCOWS took for about 80% of our club membership.  I would say that the emphasis on accuracy and the "fun" factor at each stage was the draw for most.   Our club stage writers always have you throwing a knife, shooting a bow, or rescuing a maiden in distress at each match. 

Most of our members still shoot SASS as well.  We do our NCOWS matches on different days than SASS, so we have not dropped any match dates.  We do have a few hard corp folks that will only shoot SASS and a few that will only shoot NCOWS, but most will attend either.  No one was "robbed" of members.

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

If a posse of 3 were to be formally organized and approved, and a year later no additional recruits were to be found, would the posse be sent to Boot Hill?

[Major 2]

Not likely.... 3 like minded fellows are 3  (I believe) 3  (or insert # ) more will join. There is a number (10 members) were NCOWS will refund your insurance.
If you've dropped the dime and formally organized, you're good to go.....

The year deal is a per member to at least reach level 1 impression.

Wiser (perhaps not older) heads will correct my error , if any 

[Okefinokee Outlaw]

Section 1-3 of the By-Laws in the Tally Book states that there must be 5 after a year to remain active.  I didn't know if there was a provison for an extension.  Or maybe I am misinterpreting? 

[Rambling Rex]

Rex,

Here's the direct wording on our firearm regulations:


As you can see, we limit our approved firearms to the time from of 1865 to 1899.  We don't differentiate between single and double action in competition as long as said revolver has some provenance to the time period.

Regarding semi-autos:  We do not allow them since they do not fit the definition above.  Our Congress would allow a member to petition approval of such a firearm, provided the member could provide credible historic reference that such a firearm was in documented use on the North American Frontier.  To date, no such evidence has been produced.

I would think the C-96 Mauser would qualify, as well as the Browning Model 1900, Steyr Mannlicher 1894 series, Colt Model 1900 and even the P.08 Lugar (both designs began in 1898-99 and the Lugar was adopted by the Swiss army in 1900), and it is an adaptation of the Borchardt 1893 design. I mainly asked because I seemed to remembe a decade or two ago reading the NCOWS rules and conversing via eamil with an NCOWS member/official about 1911's and Lugars and C-96s, DA revolvers and rifles like the 1893/95/96/98 Mauses, Enfields, Krag-Jorgensens, Savage 99s, Winchester and Marlin 94 and 95 models, and Springfield 03's used in side matches and thought at the time that was a great idea. They seem to have gone away from that.

[Books OToole]

I would think the C-96 Mauser would qualify, as well as the Browning Model 1900, Steyr Mannlicher 1894 series, Colt Model 1900 and even the P.08 Lugar (both designs began in 1898-99 and the Lugar was adopted by the Swiss army in 1900), and it is an adaptation of the Borchardt 1893 design. I mainly asked because I seemed to remembe a decade or two ago reading the NCOWS rules and conversing via eamil with an NCOWS member/official about 1911's and Lugars and C-96s, DA revolvers and rifles like the 1893/95/96/98 Mauses, Enfields, Krag-Jorgensens, Savage 99s, Winchester and Marlin 94 and 95 models, and Springfield 03's used in side matches and thought at the time that was a great idea. They seem to have gone away from that.

The caveat is:  The arms had to have been manufactured before 1900 and originally chambered for a black-powder cartridge.

I wanted to use a 'broom-handle' my self.

Books

[Major 2]

Section 1-3 of the By-Laws in the Tally Book states that there must be 5 after a year to remain active.  I didn't know if there was a provison for an extension.  Or maybe I am misinterpreting? 

well yeah,  there is that ( Blair reminded me it tonight) told you some wiser would chime in and it was YOU !

My point was... they "NCOW's" won't kick you outa bed for eat'n' crackers as it were...but pehaps your possi name will not still be listed ..comes to that and I'll join you and drive up to a shoot ! heck it's only 8 hours  ....one way !

[River City John]

I would think the C-96 Mauser would qualify, as well as the Browning Model 1900, Steyr Mannlicher 1894 series, Colt Model 1900 and even the P.08 Lugar (both designs began in 1898-99 and the Lugar was adopted by the Swiss army in 1900), and it is an adaptation of the Borchardt 1893 design. I mainly asked because I seemed to remembe a decade or two ago reading the NCOWS rules and conversing via eamil with an NCOWS member/official about 1911's and Lugars and C-96s, DA revolvers and rifles like the 1893/95/96/98 Mauses, Enfields, Krag-Jorgensens, Savage 99s, Winchester and Marlin 94 and 95 models, and Springfield 03's used in side matches and thought at the time that was a great idea. They seem to have gone away from that.

Not quite sure which NCOWS official you would have talked to 2 decades ago. That was before NCOWS was around. NCOWS has never officially considered adopting those arms you mention.

The majority of those arms are also not in documented use during our time period on the American frontier. Double actions of the approved type? Oh yes, we allow them.

Do many of us own and shoot similar arms in other venues? You bet!


RCJ

[Rambling Rex]

Not quite sure which NCOWS official you would have talked to 2 decades ago. That was before NCOWS was around. NCOWS has never officially considered adopting those arms you mention.

The majority of those arms are also not in documented use during our time period on the American frontier. Double actions of the approved type? Oh yes, we allow them.

Do many of us own and shoot similar arms in other venues? You bet!


RCJ

Well my memory likely failed me on the time frame (that's been known to happen, they say memory is the second thing to go and I can't remember the first). It was probably more like 10 years ago. Perhaps he was referring to his local chapter, I can't recall (now I sound like Tony Hayworth). DA's of the "approved type" would apparenty be Colt Lightning, Thunderer, 1878 DA, S&W DAs (and H&R, I own a mint H&R DA pocket gun in .38 S&W made in 1878), M&H,and of course the Starr. I'm waiting for the day when Colt or USFA or Uberti or Merwin & Hulbert makes a real DA version of those guns. Probably will be a long wait.

[PABLO DEL NORTE]

  ANY NCOWS POSSES IN THE NM/CO AREA??  WOULD BE INTERESTED IN JOININ' UP IF THERE IS ONE! 

[Pancho Peacemaker]

ANY NCOWS POSSES IN THE NM/CO AREA??  WOULD BE INTERESTED IN JOININ' UP IF THERE IS ONE! 

Pablo,

There is not a posse yet.  This is interest in getting one started.  Get in touch with this compadre:

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,34896.0.html


Con mucho gusto,


Pancho

[Books OToole]

ANY NCOWS POSSES IN THE NM/CO AREA??  WOULD BE INTERESTED IN JOININ' UP IF THERE IS ONE! 

Last summer I sent a Hooplehead's Guide to a guy named Kenny Rogers in Truth-or-Consequences, NM.  I'll see if I can dig up his contact info.

Books

[PABLO DEL NORTE]

   OBLIGED, GENTS! 

[Tascosa Joe]

ANY NCOWS POSSES IN THE NM/CO AREA??  WOULD BE INTERESTED IN JOININ' UP IF THERE IS ONE! 

Pablo:
There is a fellow that posted as Harolds over on the Longbranch looking for a club period.  He is in Eastern Colo (Lamar/Springfield).  You all may be able to get together and start a posse.

Good Luck.

T-Joe

[Capt Billy]

Same over here on the Western Slopes in Delta County CO.

[TwoWalks Baldridge]

The idea of starting a posse appeals to me, at least on the surface.  So while I whittle away the time thinking on this, I have developed a couple questions that I have found no answer too as yet.

1. Dealing with the number of posse members stated: "50% of all members and 100% of the posse officers must be NCOWS members."  Are these full paid members or can it include folks signed up as additional family members, such as spouse?

2. Is there a list of equipment needed, such as targets, timers, flags etc and the approximate cost of start up including where to get the insurance policy and cost?