Starting my second Kirst 1858

Tuolumne Lawman · April 22, 2019, 07:56:59 PM

Wednesday I am picking up a 5.5" 1858 at the Verdi Nevada Cabelas when I am in the neighborhood (going to Reno VA for some medical appointments). After talking to Walt Kirst, I think the PaleRider will go on the 5.5", as the ejector assembly is VERY hard to mount to the 5.5 inch barrel one. The 8" will be my gated conversion. Of course, I will be shooting two 5 shots (like the original .46 Rimfire conversions), so I will have to re-label the cartridge boxes with .46 Rimfire labels! The 1860 Colt will likely just be a back up.

I will post updates.

Marshal Will Wingam · April 23, 2019, 09:37:43 AM

Well, looking forward to seeing it. I assume you'll change grips on this one, too.

Tuolumne Lawman · April 25, 2019, 01:29:34 PM

Well, got the second 1858 from Cabelas. Nice and smooth, and typical trigger that is slightly heavier than it needs to be (to keep lawyers happy!). Popped the pale rider Konverter in it, and it runs like a champ. I took the gated Konverter and put it in the 8". Timing is perfect. Used my dremel and coarse emery wheel to cu t the channel in the recoil shield. Roughly centered it on the bevel for capping. Took about 45 minutes and 4 or 5 of the 1/2" emory drums. Hit the channel I cut with cold blue, and cleaned it up. REALLY sweet. The ejector rod was out of stock, so waiting on it. It is attached to the cylinder pin as one piece. Not to worry, though, as the first Remington 5 shot .46 Short rim fire conversions did not have an ejector rod.

Speaking of 5 shot conversions, the Kirst is 5 shot, like the original .46 Short Rim Fires. I use a hollow base, round nose .45 ACP lead bullet in a .45 Schofield case to replicate the .46 Rim fire load. The 1870s Winchester loading had a 230 grain, .451" heeled bullet with 28 grains of powder, making it virtually identical to the .45 Schofield loads issued by the Army, and nearly identical to the reduced (30 grains of BP) .45 Colt rounds, also issued by the Army. Basically, the .46 Short Rim Fire was a rim fire version of the Schofield!

Pics to follow.

Tuolumne Lawman · April 25, 2019, 02:06:19 PM

Marshal Will Wingam · April 25, 2019, 02:23:32 PM

Looks great! Did you order the speed ejector?

Tuolumne Lawman · April 25, 2019, 02:37:23 PM

Nope, they have a new ejector that will work with the upcoming 22 LR Konverter for the 1858 also! Apparently different from either the Mason style or the speed ejector.

Marshal Will Wingam · April 25, 2019, 02:40:39 PM

Looking forward to seeing that. Post pics when you get it.

Tuolumne Lawman · April 26, 2019, 01:49:39 PM

The nice thing about Kirst gated Konverters is you can use them immediately as a Pale Rider type, until you tackle the channel. Cutting the channel with a Dremel is REALLY easy on the 1858. Center on the cap charging scallop of the recoil shield and just keep going. If you have a variable speed Dremel, use the faster speeds, but not quite all the way up. I surrounded the hammer and areas around the channel with electrical tape in case I jumped out of the channel. My Dremel is a Craftsman, but even a cheap Harbor Freight one works.

Use liquid cold blue, putting it on heavy while the metal is still warm from grinding. Leave it on a couple minutes until the coating turns white, then slosh another coat on and leave it on until it turns almost white. Wipe off with a clean dry rag, then rub in gun oil to polish it.

Marshal Will Wingam · April 26, 2019, 08:24:17 PM

One sometimes has to learn these things the hard way. I forgot to cover my first one with tape. Fortunately I was able to polish it out and hit it with cold blue.

Tuolumne Lawman · June 12, 2019, 10:28:11 AM

Got a early pre-production sample of the new 1858 ejector rod from Walt Kirst. I did a little R&D on it, and did a few improvements that Walt is going to incorporate. VERY sturdy and works great. I like it! Production sample may have a shorter leg/thumb piece.

Marshal Will Wingam · June 12, 2019, 10:51:31 AM

That looks like a good one, TL. It looks like it'll stay put either the ready or closed position. I wonder how it would work if the slot between the two was cut at a 45 degree angle? It would be less like working a floor shift then. Quicker to work and a flick and it would close itself under the housing.

Tuolumne Lawman · June 12, 2019, 10:59:40 AM

Yep, that is one of the changes I suggested to Walt on the phone yesterday. It would work similar to an 1875 Remmie ejector, and return to the bottom under just spring pressure. I may modify this one

Marshal Will Wingam · June 12, 2019, 11:03:20 AM

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman on June 12, 2019, 10:59:40 AM
Yep, that is one of the changes I suggested to Walt on the phone yesterday. It would work similar to an 1875 Remmie ejector, and return to the bottom under just spring pressure. I may modify this one

You could grind the corners and have a wider slot on this one but it would work fine. A wider slot wouldn't hurt and might be an advantage. Please post a pic if you modify this one. Glad to hear he's going to give that a try.

Edit: Doesn't he make his Colt ejectors that way already?

Tuolumne Lawman · June 12, 2019, 11:15:41 AM

Yes, the Mason style for the Colts already does. I think it was omitted, as this was original designed to use the slight indentation in the straight channel past the 90 degree slot to retain it. It was discovered that that design had the thumb piece stuck out too far for holster. The initial plan was to rotate the tube 90 degress so the thumb piece stayed in a straight line. I came up with roll pin to retain it instead, and the bend it the thumb piece to make fit in a holster.

Marshal Will Wingam · June 12, 2019, 01:05:45 PM

Those improvements are good. I look forward to seeing the finished design. It should be most usable.

Tuolumne Lawman · June 16, 2019, 09:27:51 AM

I cut the angle at the end of the channel so it automatically retracts under the barrel. Pics to follow. WORKS GREAT!

Marshal Will Wingam · June 16, 2019, 09:48:53 AM

I suspected that would be the case. Looking forward to the pics.

Pappy Hayes · November 22, 2023, 09:16:26 PM

Quote from: Tuolumne Lawman on April 22, 2019, 07:56:59 PM
Wednesday I am picking up a 5.5" 1858 at the Verdi Nevada Cabelas when I am in the neighborhood (going to Reno VA for some medical appointments). After talking to Walt Kirst, I think the PaleRider will go on the 5.5", as the ejector assembly is VERY hard to mount to the 5.5 inch barrel one. The 8" will be my gated conversion. Of course, I will be shooting two 5 shots (like the original .46 Rimfire conversions), so I will have to re-label the cartridge boxes with .46 Rimfire labels! The 1860 Colt will likely just be a back up.

I will post updates.

What is your colt?

Tuolumne Lawman · November 22, 2023, 09:28:09 PM

Gosh, that was four years ago! It was an 1860 Kirst Pietta .45. Now I use a pair of 1999 Anderson (pre- American Frontier Firearms) 1860's in .44 Colt!

Cowtown · November 24, 2023, 04:29:32 PM

As I have been recently gaining interest in a pair of Pietta 1858's I have I've been perusing Howell and Kirst sites for conversion ideas. Your excellent narration and pictures really help understand the dremeling process needed to the recoil shield. Thank you for posting those.

I am tempted to get a pair of the stainless 5.5" Pietta 1858s as I think they look gorgeous. Then I think perhaps for the money involved these days I should wait for a pair of factory converted 1858's in stainless. Too many choices...